Furutech DFV-1 LP Vinyl Album Flattener

furutech.jpg

Vinyl warps. Even if you treat your LPs with utmost care, it’s common to find used albums too warped to get needle to groove. The Furutech DFV-1 LP Flattener works as a giant waffle iron for vinyl, delicately heating an LP just enough to get it flat without disturbing the audio grooves on the sides, then quickly cooling it to lock the new shape in place.

It’s $1,500, but at this point there’s really no price vinyl devotees aren’t willing to pay to keep their precious albums in working order.

Product Page [Furutech.com via Crave.CNET.com]

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16 Responses to Furutech DFV-1 LP Vinyl Album Flattener

  1. Skep says:

    My position is that it is in fact credible that an LP may contain substances which can be demagnetized. Disproving this doesn’t require any double blind testing, or even an over-priced demagnetizer, it merely requires an LP and some means of determining if it has or can have a magnetic field. If you can give some indication that my hypothesis is invalid then I will happily concede that the claims are indeed magical, but I don’t see why I should simply accept it as a fact merely on your say-so.

    The claims about the Furutech LP Demagnetizer are, indeed, magical in nature. It is the way of many charlatans to invoke superficially plausible explanations of function, of which vagaries of quantum physics are a current favorite. Merely positing that there might be something in the LP that can be demagnetized is no reason to presume that the LP Demagnetizer’s magical claims of audible efficacy are in anyway justified. The demagnetizer also claims to “improve” the sound of your DVDs/CDs and even your non-ferrous cables, which it does through no credible means. Note one sign of a “magical” claim is that the product is only capable of doing good and not ill.

    Let’s look a the claims of the Furutech Demagnitizer which you find are so reasonable because you think they have posited a credible physical explanation:

    The Furutech DeMag completely demagnetizes LPs and optical disc media such as CD, CD-R, DVD, MD, Game CD, Photo CD, SACD, and DVD Audio. Plus it’s an indispensable accessory for keeping interconnect cables, connectors and power cords demagnetized to prevent magnetic signal distortion.

    And the of the smaller R-2 Disc and Cable Demagnetizer, Furutech claims “The differences are enormous and easy to see and hear with today’s high-resolution systems.”

    Care to explain what credible physical effect justifies their claims of “enormous” and “easy to hear” differences in power cords and Photo CDs? These claims are magical and have no rational basis in fact. Your claims of “open mindedness” are equally suspect if you are so invested in giving this blatant claptrap benefit of the doubt rather than taking the position that positive claims require evidence. I’m rather suspect that anyone who doesn’t believe this rather basic tenet of science and skepticism has ever donated to JREF, though it is possible. Reminds me of the “some of my best friends are [blanks]” excuse, only your claim seems a little more hollow.

    But Furutech aren’t done. Let’s see what else they have to say.

    How can an LP be magnetized? It’s plastic!
    The fact is that pigment added to the plastic during the manufacturing process is the culprit. The minute amount of ferrous material in the pigment causes LPs to become magnetized. Testing at the Tokyo Nanotechnology center with a IHI Gauss meter showed that after an LP was treated with the deMag the magnetic field of the LP was lowered from 620~630 nT to 572~582 nT (nanotesla: a unit of magnetic field strength,1 Tesla = 10,000 gauss)

    Well, there is that thin veneer of “plausibility” that you are so caught up in. Where to begin? Well, for one. The formulation of LP’s is not uniform and it is complete nonsense to claim that all LPs have ferrous pigment in them, let alone a consistent amount.

    Next, lets take a look at those fancy numbers. First off, we don’t know if they are completely made up or not since charlatans routinely make stuff up out of thin air, but let’s assume they are not. Wow, nanoteslas. It is so nice of them to tell us that 1 Tessla = 10, 000 Gauss. A more relevant note might be that 1 nanotesla = 1.0 × 10-5 gauss. And the claimed reduction in magnetic strength? Oooooh, a whopping 8%. Still that might seem like lot if it wasn’t reduced by 0.00048 gauss. And even that might seem impressive, except that Furutech haven’t demonstrated that any of this (if it is even true) makes a testable difference in audio output of a record player let alone an audible one. Furutech’s claims are magical.

    Oh, and I should add that the 8% reduction from 620 to 572nT is in direct contradiction to Furutech’s claim that the DeMag “completely demagnetizes LPs”. Looks like they can’t even keep their story straight. And why should they. Furutech’s claims are magical.

    But wait! They aren’t done!

    The Sound
    Demagnetizing both sides of optical media before play results in a greater sense of power, dynamics, and resolution, with cleaner, blacker backgrounds and a larger, more stable soundstage, vivid tonal colors and deeper extension at both ends of the frequency range. Demagnetization also allows the delicacy, refinement and nuance of a performance to shine through, along with micro- and macro-dynamics you need to realize the full potential of music and movies.
     
    Using the deMag improves the sense of surround sound involvement in every two-channel and multichannel home theater system. Visceral, exciting sound heightens the participatory sense of music and especially home theater. Details of image and sound that simply weren’t there before enable a truly extraordinary experience.
     
    The Image
    Since the deMag Demagnetization Process eliminates all magnetic distortion noise, video displays of all types benefit from less ghosting, color shift, “snow”, vertical and horizontal interference lines. After treatment you’ll notice a higher resolution picture with more finely graded contrast, clean and precise, with bright, beautifully saturated colors and a more sophisticated color pallet.
     
    Don’t forget that the deMag can also be applied to video systems; cables, power cords, audio cables and their connectors!
     

    Wow, I’ll get “deeper extension” and blacker blacks. It even magically creates “details of image and sound that simply weren’t there before.” And it increases the resolution of my image! Perhaps it can even turn SD DVDs into HD DVDs? And it makes my colors “more sophisticated!” That really is magical.

    Not to worry, Furutech has a few sparse bits of alleged data to ‘back this up’ (well, some CD claims), but they can’t resist adding this whopper:

    Ordinary high power magnets used for this purpose often increase magnetization effects; they leave some areas more magnetized than others. Our patented process uses controlled attenuation to completely eliminate magnetization for immediately more vivid and colorful improvements. Ring Demagnetization further enhances conductivity of all treated materials.

    Wow, the special Ring Demagnetization treatment that enhances the conductivity of all treated materials could be a real problem for the insulators, dielectrics and semi conductors in my gear :-) Good thing that Furutech’s claims are magical.

    Now, to your claims about James Randi. You claim “I’m not planting seeds of doubt about Randi” but then you suggest that he should be doubted on the basis of “rational skepticism.” Nice try, but that is planting seeds of doubt, and in a rather obvious way that is not so clever and subtle as you might like to think. And about the famous $1,000,000 prize, you posit “where’s the catch? ” and insinuate that Randi is untrustworthy because he’s a “stage magician.” Then you imply that Randi wouldn’t pay off the prize. Yup, you aren’t planting seeds of doubt at all… Any attempts by you to attempt to pass this off as a merely a Socratic dialogue will not be credible, especially when you could resist adding a kicker and equivocate Randi’s trustworthiness with that of Nigerian scam artists. Yeah…

    Randi is credible. your arguments are not. While you could be a genuine proponent of skepticism, rationality and JERF the totality of your writing does not suggest such a position in spite your claims to be such a person. I smell sock puppets.

    Randi has proven himself to be a credible and honest broker. It is the common path of Charlatans who are embarrassed by the existence of the JREF $1,000,000 prize to try and discredit it as you are trying to do–in spite of your empty protestations to the contrary. The $1,000,000 prize serves as a beacon. When people make magical or paranormal claims, as Furutech and Sterophile are doing, the prize is an objective, scientifically vetted place we can point to and say, “Prove it! –And you’ll $1,000,000 for your trouble if you can.” Claimants get to write up what they claim to be able to do, and work with JREF to create a test that is acceptable to them and meets scientific standards, often as simple as a straight forward double blind test.

    As for why Michael Fremer of Stereophile would turn down a well publicized and professionally vetted offer of $1,000,000 for merely being able to demonstrate he could really could hear what he said could in his review ( “..demagnetizing an LP definitively removed a high-frequency glaze or glare and seemed to enrich the midband… Demagnetizing LPs works. Better yet, once a record has been demagnetized, it seems to stay that way” ). I think we can all rather easily draw our own conclusions of why he would decide to turn down a $1,000,000 prize that he could easily walk off with if he really can hear what he claims he can hear. And in a contest of credibility between Randi and Fremer (or Furutech, for that matter), there is no contest. Stage magicians are honest liars. Stereophile and Furutech? Well, I’ll take a stage magician over them anytime, especially a venerable one with a dedicated mission of separating what is true from what merely appears to be true.

    Furutech’s claims are magical. They are simply incredible–in the most literal sense of the word. Your “open mindedness” is not justified re: the FuruTech DeMag.

    So, back on point. What has this to do with the LP flattener? Simply this, that Furutech is not a credible source of product claims. While the device may work as advertised, there is no reason to give Furutech the benefit of the doubt.

    This post is my opinion.

    Partial reference list:
    http://www.furutech.com/news/FURUTECHdeMagNews2006.htm

  2. Tubman says:

    @Skep, vinyl LPs aren’t just made out of PVC: PVC’s ‘natural’ color is not black. Oh, and it’s not just ferrous materials that can be affected by magnetism – aluminum, for example, interacts in some interesting ways with magnets.

    In the ultra-high-end analog audio world, the LP itself is almost always the least precisely manufactured and controlled component. I don’t know if these things actually make a difference, but I know a few scarily obsessive audiophiles who seem to spend most of their spare time doing stuff like noticing the difference in audio quality between ultra-high-purity copper cables that you couldn’t tell apart with an electron microscope, and these guys tell me that demagnetizers can make a huge (I’m guessing that’s in a very relative sense) difference.

  3. Skep says:

    But your own arguments are no more rigorous. Let’s assume that this demagnetizer does nothing: does that really mean that none of their products work? If a newspaper contains a horoscope, does that mean that everything else in it must be meaningless too?

    You’ll note that I never claimed that the LP flattener must not work. I’ve only pointed out that Furutech has lost any credibility by selling what, in my opinion, appears to be a blatant fraud in the LP demagnetizer. But, hey, if they can prove it works using a rigorous double blind study then I’d be very impressed. In fact, I think anyone claiming that their $2,900 LP/CD/DVD “demagnetizer” has a legitimate effect has the burden of proof to prove the thing works. Not only do Furutech not bother to prove their $2,900 magic box works, they (I believe they were also eligible) wouldn’t even accept $1,000,000 to prove it works!

    Your comparison of newspapers contnaining horoscopes is not analogous to the situation. Furutech is not like a venerable and trustworthy newspaper that has a horoscope in the back, Furutech is like the Weekly World News. Even if they happen to state something that is true, it still has no value since it is inseparably commingled with fiction.

    As to Randi and Fremer. No, Fremer is not obligated to accept every million dollars in bearer bonds that he is offered. But seeing as how he claims that he can hear the difference made by the LP demagnetizer it is hard to see why he’d turn it down. It’s not a bet, you see. Fremer stands to loose nothing, only gain $1,000,000 for doing what he already explicitly says he can do. It would only take a few hours, of his time. So, I think it is pretty easy to draw conclusions based on his refusal, even if he isn’t obligated to take the test. I do think he has some obligation, though, to Stereophile readers to demonstrate that he isn’t full of crap and taking Randi’s money would be a sure way to prove he really can hear the difference. He could even donate the money to charity, or he might just blow it all on two $500,000 each interconnect cables for his stereo :-)

    I’m rather unimpressed by your “skepticism” and faint praise of Randi. You plant seeds of doubt as if he is somehow untrustworthy and should only be going after your approved list of charlatans, as opposed to the one’s who have a scam so sweet they are never prosecuted for fraud. I think Randi does a great job. He seems to get your goat though…

    Now, for your conclusion.

    I’m not saying these things work as advertised, however, I’m open to the possibility that they might, and not out of some kind of hippy-dippy “anything is possible” mentality or Scientology-grade credulity, but simply because there actually is something there which they can have an effect on, whereas your argument seems to be based on the assumption that almost nothing equals nothing.

    Note the equivocal use of “these things.” What things Tubman? I don’t think anybody has questioned that the LP flatener flattens LPs. However, you don’t get to lump the LP flatener which has a measurable physical effect with the LP demagnitizer, which nobody has proved has an audible effect–not even for a $1,000,000 prize.

    Your excuse that your mind is open because “there actually is something there which they can have an effect on” might be applicable to the flattener but not the LP/CD/DVD demagnetizer. Your vague, earlier, claim that aluminum “interacts in some interesting ways with magnets” is a clever bit of equivocation. Aluminum is an electrical conductor like copper. Moving a magnet next to a conductor induces a current in the conductor. That is how generators, electric motors and magnetic braking work. That is not the same as what you were trying to imply, that non-ferrous materials like LPs and aluminum backed CDS and DVDs can be “demagnetized” using the Furutech device and have an audible effect upon playback.

    My argument is that positive claims require evidence and that the burden of proof is on the claimant. And if you claim something makes an audible difference then you need to prove that using a proper double blind test, especially if your claim is essentially magical in nature and you are charging $2,900 a pop.

    You and I come from different perspectives. You claim to be open to the possibility that things might work–even things that make magical claims–yet you don’t seem open to the probability that they don’t.

    This post is my opinion.

  4. Tubman says:

    Skep, I’m perfectly open to the probability that demagnetizers don’t work on LPs, and inferring otherwise simply because I haven’t explicitly stated it is a rhetorical trick best left to the vacuity that passes for modern political debate. I’m simply challenging your assertion that this is a magical claim. My position is that it is in fact credible that an LP may contain substances which can be demagnetized. Disproving this doesn’t require any double blind testing, or even an over-priced demagnetizer, it merely requires an LP and some means of determining if it has or can have a magnetic field. If you can give some indication that my hypothesis is invalid then I will happily concede that the claims are indeed magical, but I don’t see why I should simply accept it as a fact merely on your say-so.

    I’m not planting seeds of doubt about Randi, I’m merely pointing out that it’s not incumbent upon everyone to share your adoration and boundless faith. The doubt is a result of the same rational skepticism that you might show when someone you’ve never heard of offers you a huge sum of money for a trivial amount of work: where’s the catch? Oh, he’s a sometime stage magician? Well, that would certainly put anyone’s mind at rest. And obviously there’s the prospect of handing over $1 million if he’s wrong: what right-thinking person could possibly consider that his interest in the matter could be anything other than that of promoting rational inquiry?

    Could these perfectly normal doubts be put to rest? Of course. Could they be put to rest in a few hours? Not even close: just reaching agreement on any serious testing protocol should take considerably longer. If you seriously believe that there is no possible reason not to take Randi’s offer at face value, then I can put you in contact with some charming Nigerian gentlemen who offer similarly lucrative proposals requiring even less effort, if they haven’t already been in touch.

    If it genuinely appears to you that Randi gets my goat, and it’s not just an attempted provocation, your perception has failed you: I’ve donated money to JREF in the past, and may well do so in the future. That I think him less than utterly perfect does not bar me from helping fund his foundation, it doesn’t prevent me from being happy to do so, and it doesn’t stop me from comprehending that someone might turn down his challenge for reasons other than knowing that they’d be revealed as a fraud, even if I believe they would be incorrect in so doing.

  5. travelina says:

    Reminds me of the iPod Shredder from Sky Maul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2255eNPx1l8

  6. Anonymous says:

    These things are wonderful for turntablists.
    It is impossible to backcue and scratch effectively with warped vinyl.
    Once the record is flat you can cut it up like new again.
    Do you understand?
    DJs are putting their nasty grimy fingers all over the records and creating friction in the grooves that would make your mother scream!

  7. Tubman says:

    Yes, Skep, the claims are magical. A lesser person might have inferred as much from last post. I even thanked you for demonstrating that to my satisfaction. Was there something else you were after? I should warn you, I don’t do kinky stuff.

    I didn’t oddly leave out D) at all. I specifically asked you to consider the choice of an individual who knew nothing about Randi. If he knows nothing about Randi to start with, how can he make a decision based on knowledge of Randi’s trustworthiness which he does not in fact possess? The only way D) exists is if you posit that no-one can not know of Randi’s honesty or if you decree that the knowledge spontaneously forms in the mind of the challengee once challenged: a kind of magic, if you will. If you find my reasoning unconvincing, let me explain the question (and incidentally, the 419 scam parallel which provoked your outrage) in terms I suspect you may be more familiar with: it was in essence a textbook false belief task with the only definitively incorrect answer excluded, that being D).

  8. Tubman says:

    Skep, unfortunately you seem to have wasted your time in writing that last post as you’ve completely misinterpreted what I was talking about. Nah, just kidding. That 8% figure kind of leapt out (or it would have done if you’d put it at the front, or not surrounded it with so much other stuff). While it’s nice to know that LPs can in fact be magnetically charged, or at any rate, you can cite Furutech’s claim to have found one without ruining a good keyboard pointing out why it’s not true, it’s pretty clear that shaving a tiny fraction of that magnetism off it really isn’t the kind of result that I’d be looking for to sustain my hypothesis. So, thanks for that: now that my second-rate theory is dead, we can talk about magical LP demagnetization claims without rancor.

    Now, let me repay the favor by pointing out where you’re wrong on this business with Randi. I’m certain, and you are (obviously) at least as certain that Randi is trustworthy and not inclined to fake tests to ensure JREF hangs on to that $1 million. But, imagine if you will, a person who is so ignorant that he doesn’t know who Randi is. A philistine, to be sure, but possibly, and, dare I say it, even probably, not alone in his ignorance. What is such a pitiable creature’s default position likely to be should he receive Randi’s challenge?

    Is it:
    a)Yes!
    b)I shall devote myself for an indeterminate period to ascertaining the veracity of this proposition before committing myself.
    c)This must be a scam.

  9. Ape Lad says:

    $1500 is easily worth it if you have a big, warped collection.

  10. Skep says:

    Tubman wrote:

    "I know a few scarily obsessive audiophiles who seem to spend most of their spare time doing stuff like noticing the difference in audio quality between ultra-high-purity copper cables that you couldn’t tell apart with an electron microscope, and these guys tell me that demagnetizers can make a huge (I’m guessing that’s in a very relative sense) difference."

    I think you’ve just proved my point, those people speak of think they hear differences in things that you know should make no audible difference. Yet rather than use your common sense you let them cow you into believing that they can actually hear a difference because they seem so confident and well informed.

    The high-end "audiophile" market is filled not just with expensive products that work but also pseudo-scientific BS products that dont make a detectable difference difference in when properly tested in a double blind test–let alone a perceptable improvement. One example would be these BS $7,250 speaker cables, or a $2,999.99 6′ long friggin’AC power cable that is supposed to offer

    "a dramatic sound stage, tremendous dynamic range and superb articulation of the musical event. When used with video components; clarity, detail, and the natural depth of colors are revealed. Valhalla Power Cord uses our new proprietary ‘Dual Micro Mono-filament’ technology to enhance audio and video performance."

    …and other magical BS.

    Audiophiles have so bought into this BS that they actually review these $1000+ 6′ AC power cables and rate them on how affect the "warmth," "detail" and "synergy." Of course, these fans stay away from the much feared "double blind tests" that would require them to be able to tell the difference between a $2 Radio Shack power cord and a $3000 one without knowing which they were listening too. Like dowsers, audiophiles have a raft of excuses why they can’t do this, none of which includes the possiblitiy that there is no perceptable difference. Their minds are compeltely closed to the idea that what they are hearing is a perceptual psychollogy illusion.

    When you start claiming that a product makes a difference that is on the edge of perception you get into an area where it is impossible to tell whether or not you can actually hear a difference or you just think you can. Some high end audiophile gear is like the Emperor’s New Clothes. Many people who obsese over audiophile gear have a heavy investment in believing it works. Everyone wants to say they can hear a difference since nobody wants to think they can’t hear the same nuances as friends and salesmen cam. Others deferentially give audiophiles the benefit of the doubt, assuming that nobody would spend that much time and money if the products didn’t acutally work. Even you, Tubman, have fallen for this trap.

    Psychologically, the obsessed audiophiles have to believe the stuff works because the contrary position, that they are self-deluded and wasted thousands and thousands of dollars on worthless crap is unacceptable to them. Hence the cognitive dissonance that causes many audiophiles to reject the idea of the kind of double blind testing that accounts for the psychology of perception and judgement. In fact, the forum at audiophile site Head-Fi that covers the majority of this claptrap specifically prohibits mentioning the offensive double blind test, instead favoring subjective tests that allow people’s imaginations to come to firm conclusions based on imagination rather than objective fact.

    Not all audiophiles are so foolish. Many wish to be able to separate the products that make audible differences from those that don’t so that they only buy worthwhile products, however pseudo-scientific claptrap is a mainstay of the high-end audiophile community and magazines like Stereophile, so much so that legendary Skeptic James Randi offered Michael Fremer of Stereophile–or anyone at Stereophile–$1,000,000 if they could actually hear the improvements made by any number of the pseudo scientific claptrap they gave positive reviews of, including the original Furutech LP demagnitizer, about which which Stereophile said "..demagnetizing an LP definitively removed a high-frequency glaze or glare and seemed to enrich the midband… Demagnetizing LPs works. Better yet, once a record has been demagnetized, it seems to stay that way… And do not try one of these devices unless you’re prepared to buy it."

    James Randi:

    …I’d much rather give the prize to Michael Fremer of Stereophile, who apparently can tell – via his highly-developed senses – whether or not an LP has been treated by the deMag device! But, strangely enough, he won’t invest 20 minutes of his time to win the JREF million-dollar prize! Or could it be that he’s an incompetent fumbler and is just turning out crap for naïve subscribers to Stereophile? He will not respond, nor will anyone else at Stereophile Magazine, because they’re fakers.

    Prove me wrong.

    …and yes, Randi’s offer was for real and he has a $1,000,000 prize fund.

  11. jonathanpeterson says:

    Get get two pieces of glass that are bigger than an album. Sandwich the vinyl in-between. Put it out in the sun for an hour or so (depending on how hot it is), bring it back inside and allow the record to cool while still pressed by the glass.

    viola. I saved you $15000

  12. Skep says:

    That 8% figure kind of leapt out (or it would have done if you’d put it at the front, or not surrounded it with so much other stuff). While it’s nice to know that LPs can in fact be magnetically charged, or at any rate, you can cite Furutech’s claim to have found one without ruining a good keyboard pointing out why it’s not true, it’s pretty clear that shaving a tiny fraction of that magnetism off it really isn’t the kind of result that I’d be looking for to sustain my hypothesis.

    You are an odd duck, Tubman. While I’m happy that you feel vindicated that “LPs can in fact be magnetically charged,” I would say that we know no such thing. You seem to accept the data provided by Furutech as true merely because of partial confirmation bias. The other claims by Furutech are such outrageous howlers (“Demagnetization further enhances conductivity of all treated materials;” “you’ll notice a higher resolution picture…and a more sophisticated color pallet.” etc) that there is no reason to accept the proffered nT measurment “data” as true just because it is less outragious. Furutech’s claims are magical and Furutech have proven themselves to be an unreliable source of factual information.

    I expected your “I was speaking Socratically” defense. It rings hollow, especially in the light of this assertion: “If you seriously believe that there is no possible reason not to take Randi’s offer at face value, then I can put you in contact with some charming Nigerian gentlemen who offer similarly lucrative proposals requiring even less effort” With this artfully constructed bit of equivocation, you thereby attempt to link the credibility of JREF, an upstanding non-profit organization with a documented history of education and advocacy for Science and Reason that anyone can look up on the internet, to a Nigerian scam letter, as though the two are legitimately analgous. So, no, I’m not buying your claimed sincerity at face value. This is a kind skepticism which you heartily approve in the case of Randi, a man of excellent and verifiable reputation, so of course you will no doubt doubly approve and praise me for doing so in the case of not taking the word of an anonymous poster who’s own words appear to betray him.

    Your summation of the thoughts of a potential claimant might hold about the $1,000,000 JREF prize for demonstrating claims of the paranormal being real leaves a few possibilities out. You said they were:

    a)Yes!
    b)I shall devote myself for an indeterminate period to ascertaining the veracity of this proposition before committing myself.
    c)This must be a scam.

    You, oddly, left out “D) The JREF Prize is for real, but I can’t actually do what I claim and pass their legitimate test because I’m a fraud. I don’t want to be caught. The very existence of this test embarrasses me publicly and so I must use all means at my disposal to subtlety discredit this legitimate, honest and incorruptible menace to my fraudulent livelihood.”

    Granted, many or perhaps most of the people eligible to be tested by JREF for the $1,000,000 prize are genuinely self-deluded people who really do think they can do what they claim to do. Dowsers are a prime example. But others are professional scam artists like eyes-open psychics and people who professionally make magical claims about audio equipment who know full well they can’t pass and their only recourse is to make up excuses why they shouldn’t take the test, like the ones you have helpfully been offering up. Funny that. You being a JREF supporter and all–or so you claim.

    What you haven’t done is what you claimed you would:

    . If you can give some indication that my hypothesis is invalid then I will happily concede that the claims are indeed magical

    You haven’t explicitly stated that the Furutech claims are, indeed, magical. Living up to your promise so would go a long way in establishing your credibility.

    This post is my opinion.

  13. Skep says:

    Wow, that seems like it would work, but then, can you trust a company that sells a total BS LP/CD/DVD demagnetizer for $2900?? If Furutech claims that your nonferrous vinyl LPs need to be demagnetized it is a bit hard to trust them when they say they also need to be flattened and that they are just the people to trust to do it.

    I’m not sure I’d trust a Witch Doctor to do surgery on my LP’s (pace witches :) )

  14. Simon Greenwood says:

    You have now entered green felt tip pen world. As mad hifi ideas go, this one isn’t too bad, although a trouser press and a couple of sheets of glass are probably far cheaper. Free if you stay in hotels a lot.

  15. Tubman says:

    Skep, you’ve taken my dramatic hyperbole a little too literally (or, to put it more accurately, I didn’t spell things out clearly). The cables I was referring to were different, but on a level that I considered to be irrelevant. My friends, however, were easily able to tell the difference in an ad hoc ABX test. Could it have been faked? Possibly. Could the test have been inadequate? Again, I certainly wouldn’t rule it out. However, on this basis, I didn’t consider it unreasonable to posit that they knew what they were talking about when it came to other exotic and expensive audio equipment.

    Obviously, this doesn’t stand up to rigorous scrutiny as a proof: even if I could demonstrate conclusively that the test carried out was valid, it’s only by inference that I arrive at the conclusion that other, untested devices are also valid.

    But your own arguments are no more rigorous. Let’s assume that this demagnetizer does nothing: does that really mean that none of their products work? If a newspaper contains a horoscope, does that mean that everything else in it must be meaningless too?

    Fremer turning down Randi’s test doesn’t prove anything other than that he doesn’t want to take the test, and to imply otherwise is a logical fallacy, just as it would be to imply that Randi is lying when he accuses others of libel or slander but doesn’t sue. I like Randi and think he plays a useful role, but I’m just as skeptical about him as I am about Fremer, while the epithet “legendary” you’ve bestowed upon Randi seems to suggest a faith in his prowess which goes beyond a strictly rational appraisal of his abilities. Personally, I’d prefer it if Randi stuck to going after presumed charlatans who pose a real threat to physical or psychological well-being, rather than people who are at worst, self-deluded and do no harm other than being accessories to convincing wealthy fools that they’ll be happier if they own something that serves no purpose.

    I re-iterate, I’m not saying these things work as advertised, however, I’m open to the possibility that they might, and not out of some kind of hippy-dippy “anything is possible” mentality or Scientology-grade credulity, but simply because there actually is something there which they can have an effect on, whereas your argument seems to be based on the assumption that almost nothing equals nothing.

  16. Christopher says:

    Hah, I’ve had this problem with some of my vinyl in the past – the glass trick or just two heavy books (encyclopaedia work really well for this) placed judiciously for a few hours work very nicely in all but the most extreme of cases.

    I’d consider $1500 for a quality turntable, but paying that for what’s really nothing more than a custom-sized trouser press?

    Erm… I think I’ll pass on this one.

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