Virgin Mobile: the cheapest phone on the cheapest network turns out to be a pain the ass (updated)
Think there are no gotchas to look out for with cheap, pre-paid cell phones? Think again.
(Update: complaining lies ahead. Stop here if you don't care.)
I decided to live free with a pre-paid cheapie after my old contract expired. Virgin Mobile's "Marbl" is less than $10 and works, even if it is like a toy phone bought at a dollar store. Prepayment is simple, easy, no-fuss. Right?
After activating it and applying a top-up card, I spotted that my plan was switched to a 20-cents-a-minute plan instead of the "Pay as you go" anytime minutes plan that I'd selected at activation. Virgin didn't tell me it did this, and I only found out by checking out the online account interface after my purchase. In effect, the switch halves the number of minutes I get. Nor could I change the plan back: that option was grayed out.
Tech support told me that it's a problem in the system: even if you select the "Pay as you go" option, it might not work — the live adviser said that "it's not automatic that you are added to that plan," even if you select it during activation.
Update: Email tech support just replied, with a somewhat different explanation: yes, we default you to 20 cents a minute whenever you top up, and it doesn't matter if you chose something else at activation. The important bit:
"In 20 cents Pay As You Go plan, the Minute Packs will not be added automatically when you Top-Up the account. You need to purchase Minute Packs manually."
That makes sense of it all, but it's sneaky to sell top-up cards with "200 anytime minutes" in giant type on the front, that nevertheless quietly default their credit to a schedule that gets you only half that number.
My big mistake here, I suspect, was to use Virgin's web interface. Commenter Cpualani suggests below that the website is confusing and screwy and you should always do top-ups through your handset.
I probably had it coming, though: buyers of cheap low-end phones on cheap low-end networks aren't the most detail-minded of customers. I, for one, didn't read the 11,000-word terms of service. Expecting simplicity, I'm an easy mark for small-print switcheroos, especially concerning amounts of money that most would consider trivial.
Maybe I should get an iPhone after all; at least then I'll get to play Super Monkey Ball for my troubles!
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You might try that again with a different browser. Its weird and stupid, but it sometimes works. 3G iphone plans might be expensive, but you know what you're in for, right?
Whine whine whine. Did you even bother trying to call them and find out what had happened?
Or try another browser?
Or do any remedial steps before crying out your woes to the whole wide world?
Did you buy the minute pack when you entered in the $20 card's PIN? without that, you don't get the discount. I'm not sure why they don't have an automatic "Purchase Minute Pack" radio button/package option when you start service, since this is a pretty common problem (if that's what your problem was. If not, sorry for the blatherin'.)
Sorry for the double post.
Full Disclosure: I don't work for Virgin or have a Virgin Mobile account, but I do work at Best Buy in the Mobile department. Recently, we have begun setting up Virgin phones, that being the only reason for my knowing that crap.
(Also, did they charge you airtime for calling Customer Service? just curious.)
One thing's for sure, they have to honor whatever they were advertising on the package or ad or whatever display you based your purchase on. If they don't, it's blatant bait and switch, regardless of whatever small print they might have included in their terms of service.
I do agree with some of the other posters, though. Looks like you were pretty quick to post here before exhausting all your normal recourses and troubleshooting possibilities. Or if you did, you didn't make it clear.
With the great power of having a popular blog comes great responsibility.
Uhh, Virgin works through sprint
Of course I called tech support! More on that in a moment.
Dssstrkl wrote: "You might try that again with a different browser. Its weird and stupid, but it sometimes works."
I figured that might be it, but the radio button is disabled in the HTML tag.
"3G iphone plans might be expensive, but you know what you're in for, right?"
Oh yes! It's the pain of smartphone TCO that really led to the desire to get out that game for good.
Cpualani wrote: "Did you buy the minute pack when you entered in the $20 card's PIN?"
I keep thinking that I must have clicked something somewhere to cause this, cynicism about the silly TOS notwithstanding. However, you choose the plan type at activation; when you top up, it offers no choice on exactly how the top up is applied.
"Also, did they charge you airtime for calling Customer Service? just curious."
I'm not sure, but I wrote the post after calling the first time and not being able to even get to a human: they have a supremely irriating recorded happy lady ask irrelevant questions. Even after getting to the "Live advisor" option, it asks why you want to speak to a live advisor, and then backs you out of that option if you say something it thinks it can fix itself.
I did eventually get through. My live advisor confirmed that even if you select the cheaper, advertised option, it sometimes "doesn't work."
Quotes from my notes:
"It's not automatic that you are added to that plan."
"Sometimes the system, there are different options happening on the system, that is why it is not successfully going through."
She said she's fixed it, but now my "Your Plan" description at the site contains both two plans, which are contradictory: a 20 cent a minute basic rate plan and the 200-mins-for-$20 (i.e. 10c a minute) deal.
I just feel numb thinking about it.
Why are you awake at 4am responding to comments? We expect a day's work out of you, Rob!
And I could have been waiting in line for an iPhone 3G all this time.
That's strange, the option for buying the Minute Pack (for that ten cent/min deal) should have been on the confirmation page after you added the money to the account.
Come to think of it, the last time I used the web interface to set up a customer's account, the whole site went under and displayed that we hadn't put the 50$ dollar card he paid for in his account. It got cleared up after I called Customer Service a few times. Your problem might be similar, with Virgin's site screwing up after you added the money.
Also, you said: "[the "Your Plan" description was] contradictory: a 20 cent a minute basic rate plan and the 200-mins-for-$20 (i.e. 10c a minute) deal." It's not really contradictory, just badly written. if you don't have a Minute Pack on the account, but have a cash balance, you end up paying that 20 cent/min flat rate. I don't know why they can't spell it out more than they do, because seeing that front-and center on their account summary always confuses everyone who sees it. I had to dig through the help pages and the retail manual before I could get a straight breakdown of the whole concept.
If you do decide to stick with Virgin, you should top-up through the phone's WAP interface. I've noticed that the option for purchasing the minute pack is always on the confirmation page. Yeah, the wait time is annoying and entering the PIN on your keypad is kind of a chore, but going that route (in my experience,) you have a better chance of getting the right menu options.
Cpualani, thanks for clearing up the 20 cent vs. 10 cent issue. The website is definitely troublesome: the drop-down menus don't clear, for starters.
Perhaps the activation form gets generated (or parsed) incorrectly, meaning that whatever options are selected ended up reverting to defaults. That would explain the "sometimes it doesn't work" excuses.
Sticking with it it the plan, because it's the cheapest going for 200-minutes-a-month and thereabouts. This $10 handset, though, it is quite the little nasty.
I just removed a graf from the post because it wasn't really relevant to the point about screwed up plans.
But it still deserves pointing out that the must-agree terms of service for Virgin Mobile is 11,261 words long!
So is this article exposing some shady dealings by Virgin Mobile, or did things just get screwed up with your particular experience and you need to vent?
Venting is cool, but if a screw-up happened, you called 'em and they're fixing it then there is no issue.
If it's a lack of lightning fast and competent customer service from a pay-as-you-go phone provider you are bemoaning then I would point out the crap service the folks who actually pay a couple of bucks for their service get and ask you to put that into perspective.
Virgin might be slow and clunky (like their phones) but overall they seem pretty cool compared to many other pay-as-you-gos.
I'm guessing that low-end prepaid phone customers are one of the groups(along with customers of sleazy check-cashing places, rent-to-own shops, and BlueHippo computer) who are very likely to get the "Only lawyer he'll ever have is a Public Defender, screw 'im!" treatment.
If the first-tier phone techs know about a bug, it isn't exactly news to anybody, corporate included. I suspect that a bug that made things cost half as much from time to time wouldn't have survived quite this long.
I've had Virgin for something on the order of 7 years, with a Kyocera SE47 phone, pay as you go. I have never had the slightest problem with the service, Short of battery replacements my original SE47 has worked fine and never needed a replacement. I've set other folks up with the service including my parents with zero problems. Several friends have actually dropped landline service in favor of Virgin. I've bought friends Marbl phones and have ended up getting more credits and gift cards than the phone cost.
If you don't use your phone much, Virgin is a great deal. All payments are upfront, you have no obligations, you really own your phone, you can change phones for less than the cost of the average DVD. You can stop service at the drop of a hat.
The Kyocera phones are well nigh indestructable, and the Sprint network is excellent.
I think the problem is one of class snobbery. The Boing Boing Kewl Kids Klub has to look down on "Buyers of cheap low-end phones on cheap low-end networks". (For the record I've a PhD In physics w/ a six figure income). On the other hand they will be happly reamed by Steve Jobs and AT&T because the iPhone is so Kewl!
"So is this article exposing some shady dealings by Virgin Mobile, or did things just get screwed up with your particular experience and you need to vent?"
It's mostly the latter, but I don't think it's at all kosher. Based on its own response to me, Virgin Mobile has a serious, recurring setup bug which it knows about, profits from, but does nothing to fix in each case until each customer figures out what's going on and calls them.
"I think the problem is one of class snobbery. The Boing Boing Kewl Kids Klub has to look down on "Buyers of cheap low-end phones on cheap low-end networks"
I guess I'll hand in my Kewl class snob card, then, since a buyer of a cheap low-end phone is exactly what I am. Sheesh.
I have to say that my experiences with Virgin Mobile - and yes, I've had problems with both cheap, pre-paid phones I have - has been pretty much the best customer service from a phone company. They've been friendly, genuinely cheerful, and competent.
Yes, there may be things in the system that don't work and are out of their control, but I do get the feeling they genuinely care and will in fact do something not only to help you out but to get someone to fix the system.
My phone costs me about $5/mo.
OK!
I got a response from email tech support, and according to them, it works like this:
Even if you set up the plan to pay by minutes, when you top it up, it defaults the top up to plain credit at a more expensive rate.
Yes, even though the card says "200 anytime minutes" on the front. You have to take further action to switch it over to minutes.
This is more convincing than the "it's a bug" explanation. Maybe I prefer it because it's eviller.
I had no idea that pre-paid phones would involve gotchas designed to drain your credit faster. How naive am I?
Weenies who told me I was overreacting: yes, the cellular glass is half-empty for me. Sorry, it's the way I'm wired!
Just be glad you don't have the Kyocera Marbl phone from Virgin in light blue. I'd say it's Hasbrorific, but really it's Fisher Priceless.
I'm still trying to puzzle out the Virgin Mobile plans. I bought my ridiculously cheap Virgin phone as an indestructible emergency phone for my long road bike rides and marathon training runs -- I need something that I can sweat on for four hours straight, drop on the asphalt a few times, shove in a back pocket with chocolate Clif bar smears and a mushy banana, and land on in a horrific skin-peeling bike crash. So, cheapest phone in existence sounded like a good deal; iPhone not so much. But I fell into the same "Top-Up is not the same as buying a minute pack" confusion on my first month of ownership.
On my second month of ownership, I ran into quite the opposite problem: in the second month, I ended up using the phone considerably less than in my first month, and wanted to simply go to the (more expensive per minuter) pay-as-you-go default. But when I bought the Top-up card, I somehow (accidentally?) applied the $20 Top-Up to a 200 Minute plan, meaning that at the end of this month, even though I've not used anything like 200 minutes, I still have to buy another $20 Top Up Card to either have money for the Pay as You Go Plan or to roll over the exisitng minutes. Otherwise, at the end of this month, all the minutes go away, I have a zero balance, and have to put money on it again.
Argh. Not what I wanted to do -- and I'm a fairly tech and consumer savvy person. How did I not understand Virgin Mobile's plan system twice in a row?
@17 -- I want to do what you did, with the $5/month thing, almost never using it except in case of emergencies. How did you do that?
$5/month?
OK, that beats mine. $12/month ($10 plus tax and fees), phone is free (yes, FREE), one-month termination (no fee) and I can either pay $0.25 per minute (which is what I use - this thing is for emergency calls, in three years I've made two outgoing calls) or use a "plan" starting at $0.10/minute.
https://www.consumercellular.com/
Stupidnickname,
Great comment; glad to see I'm not alone in being baffled by Virgin's "Oh, but you have to do this, too. Didn't you get the memo?" credit configuration maze.
I am pretty close to breaking and just getting an iPhone.
The super-low-end VM phones are absolutely craptastic, but the ones over $50 are about on par with most of the entry level stuff from contract carriers.
And compared to TracFone... Virgin mobile goes from merely OK to pure bliss.
I'm reasonably happy with Net10 service http://www.net10.com . They advertise it as 10 cents a minute, which is accurate if you average 150 minutes or more per month. If you use less than that that, you're still looking at a minimum average cost of $15/month.
$30 puts 300 minutes and 60 days activation on the phone. Unused minutes and unused activation roll over.
Light use example: You talk an average of 30 minutes a month, and add a new $30 card every 60 days to prevent activation days from running out. After 179 days you've used 179 minutes, you've paid $90, you have 721 unused minutes available, and one activation day left to use them up. Or buy a new card to roll over your unused minutes, add 300 minutes more, and extend your activation by 60 days.
Heavier use example: You talk an average of 300 minutes a month, and add a new $30 card as needed to prevent running out of minutes. After 179 days, you've used 1790 minutes, paid $180, you have 10 unused minutes available, and 181 days left to use them up. Or buy a new card to add 300 minutes and 60 days more, pushing your activation time to 241 days.
Virgin Mobile prepaid is only a good idea for people who pretty much NEVER use their phones. I'm talking the folks for whom 15 minutes is plenty for a month.
In that scenario, signing up for minimum autoload on their website is the cheapest form of cellphone ownership out there (next to carrying a no-service phone for 911-only service - which every Luddite should do anyhow)
Less than 2 months after having my LG musiq, I woke up one morning to find the screen was pure white and the buttons were not working, making the phone an expensive paper weight. I called VM customer service and they told me it must be my fault and there must of been physical damage or it was left in the sun for a ridiculous amount of hours. The funny thing is I work for Future Shop in Canada selling.. phones! I told her as much and that I was never in the sun longer than 5 minutes a day let alone countless hours and that my phone never leaves my pocket. She said a technician had told her that he'd never heard of the problem I was having but they would send a repair kit in 5 days.
A week and a half goes by, no package shows up and I get a calling telling me that my phone won't be fixed as they are sure I must of damaged it so they won't even send me a box to ship it in so they can look at it.
I call them back and go through the whole scenario yet again! This time I am assured they will send me a repair box in 5 days or less. 2 weeks go by.. guess what.. NO BOX.
For the third time I call and I'm absolutely furious, the CSR tells me that they decided yet again the phone must of been physically damaged ( I will show pics, the thing is unscathed I am obsessively careful with all my electronics, comes with working for FS I guess). She assures me they will send me a box in 5 days, I tell her no, that is total *beep* and asked to speak to a manager.
"No manager is present I will put you on a list and the manager will call you back within 48 hours." That was 5 days ago now.
Virgin Mobile has given me the worst customer service I have ever received and I have told every one of their potential customers that comes in as much. If they want to screw me out of a phone, I will screw them out of 50+ customers a week until something is done about this nonsense.
In the mean time I went back to Rogers and use their service on a cheap phone. I am locked in for a 3 year contract with VM so it would cost me $10 a month to cancel, instead I'll buy a crap *beep* phone and use the service I guess. But I will let every customer I know exactly how badly Virgin treats their customers.
I'll let you know if they ever call me back.
bought the virgin mobile wildcard m1000. couple problems voicemail quit; reset and working. phone beeping every 5 min; tech support mailed new phone and assured every thing will be transfered over because i have service preserver prepaid $90 year. new phone working. refused to transfer $45 of games or even credit account. i am on $0.18 min -no monthly plan or bill. will call back to see if they can fix my issues. customer service has been a role of the dice. some times good, other times bad. vm uses a state of the art automated account management oracle system. I guess it needs some fine tuning. and yes the devil is in the fine print. they are supposed to be up front and straight forward. -think again. as a basic phone its great. extra features are nearly worthless so far. I hope they update the software. I love the concept of the appointment calendar, but entering the info is a pain and much faster to write on paper. ringer is way to quiet and i missed lot of calls.