You’re being silly. Here’s Dan Rutter:
The second you read someone saying that metallic mercury is an incredibly potent neurotoxin, you know you’re looking at bullshit. ORGANIC mercury compounds are indeed ultra-poisonous, but metallic mercury quite simply is not. It ain’t good for you; there ain’t no Vitamin C in there. But breathing a bit of metallic mercury vapour really is not a big deal. And the amount of metallic mercury in a domestic [fluorescent lightbulb] is tiny – only a few milligrams.
It’s the same old story: misrepresented studies, a cottage industry of panic nannies and a mainstream press always willing to make a meal of it.
Photo: Stitch
Light-Bulbs Of DOOOOOOMMMM! [How To Spot A Psychopath]
Guess I can start licking broken CFLs again
The only issue is with disposal, as metallic mercury + landfill can eventually = organic mercury.
One bulb is probably not a problem.
A waste stream full of ‘em may add up to enough to worry about.
So: Don’t panic, but do recycle if you can, so they can capture the mercury — and the other reusable materials.
Yeah, to be fair, metallic mercury is so dangerous that you can buy it in soda-can size squirt bottles, with straws coming out the top to dispense the stuff from.
I think the only case of someone dying from metallic mercury I can think of was at an industrial plant, where a pipe broke and the guy ended up swimming in/swallowing a small river of mercury, and the sheer weight tore holes in his guts. Probably not a problem with mercury vapor in bulbs…
Word up to Mdhatter and Technogeek. 13 watt CFLs are exempt from the EPA “hazardous waste” regs, but since most are manufactured in China, are we really supposed to believe they’re limited to the 5mg that the EPA says they should? The same quality control they have with dog food and children’s toys?
More mercury in lamps results in brighter lamps, shorter warm-up time and more consistent color. This is what people want and I’m sure most are buying the cheapest CFL possible without being informed of what problems may lie within when they toss it when it dies. When it dies, it may not be broken. It may get broken when it’s in the landfill, and that’s when the issue appears.
The lady who called the EPA when her CFL broke and wanted them to clean her place? Crazy.
10,000 CFLs with 5mg of mercury being tossed out by a major metropolitan area and leeching into the groundwater supply? Problem.
To be honest, the issue isn’t with anyone who is out there like you and I, reading sites and getting information and being responsible for recycling CFLs, the issue is going to be all the people who read this headline and are convinced that their information is complete.
My issues with CFLs is simple aesthetics. I have them in my hallways at home, but never in rooms where I’ll be for any amount of time.
“It’s the same old story: misrepresented studies, a cottage industry of panic nannies and a mainstream press always willing to make a meal of it.”
You mean like global warming?
Still doesn’t change the fact that most CFLs have refresh rates so low that they make me want to claw my own eyes out.
Some of them are passable, but I haven’t noticed any way to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones until they’re screwed in, and no way am I going to undertake the task of replacing all of my incandescent bulbs with CFLs if I don’t know which ones are going to suck.
Anyone else sensitive to low CFL refresh rates who has advice on buying CFLs? Or LED bulbs, for that matter?
Just because one CFL will not kill you personally doesn’t mean they’re a benign consumer product. Mdhatter, technogeek and mccrum all have the right idea: the key is to look beyond your own doorstep and consider the ramifications widespread CFL disposal will have on our soil, groundwater and surface waters. We keep dumping it, it will eventually become biologically available and wind up nice and concentrated in all those fishies we like to eat.
Didymos, I’ve seen some GE lamps with a A-19 type envelope that looked quite good. However, I’ve seen two versions, a 15 watt and a 20 watt (and two variants on the 20 watt) and the 15 watt was probably the best so far.
LED bulbs? You’re dreaming at this point. They require a low voltage signal and large heatsink for the electronics. With the watts/lumens ratio of good color rendering versions of warm white hovering a little over incandescent, you’re better off sticking to that 60 watt bulb you’ve got. They’re also very directional, which is great if they’re pointed in the direction you want. Not so much otherwise.
If you want to save energy, go to CFL at this point. Warm white LEDs, possibly in five years? Hopefully?
When I was a kid there were two things you took home from the dentist, one was a lollipop and the other was a small vial holding a glob of mercury. We rolled it around in our hands or dipped pennies in it to make them look like dimes. Man have things changed.
Didymos, have you really had the “low refresh rate” problem with modern CFLs? All modern CFLs use an electronic ballast running in the 20 – 65 kilohertz range. 120hz (.12 khz) is usually more than high enough to eliminate flicker for most people.
One key is to allow them to warm up – the lights in my office are noticeably brighter and more stable after they’ve been on for a minute or so.
An interesting tidbit is that I recently replaced the CFL lamps in my office .. after eight years of 8-hour/day 5-day/week use.
For those pointing out the remaining environmental impact – wikipedia has a nice chart. And if proper recycling was set up this would be even further reduced.
Still CF’s are really just a stepping stone while LED tech is perfected. One of my favorite instructables shows how to get 500+ lumens out of 8W.
I’d bet that there’s mre mercury in my thermostat than in all the CFLs in my house.
What is the real cost of all these expensive CFL’s including their disposal or recycling? Why can’t we wait for LED’s?
Foetusnail, I believe that Gabrielm answered your question, and we shouldn’t wait for LED’s because what we’re using now is believed to be more harmful than switching to CFLs. It’s likely to be a decade or more before mass production LEDs approach the efficiency and light output of fluorescent lamps, and years after that until they come close to the low cost.
#13 FoetusNail: Because LEDs still cost up to 100x per lumen than regular or CFL bulbs. http://optics.org/cws/article/articles/17372
When you account for the savings in electricity and bulb replacement over a span of twenty years, well, then LEDs are quite reasonable. But most homes and businesses aren’t comfortable making that initial investment, especially since the price may continue to go down in the next five-ten years.
Why can’t we wait? Because, as dculberson says, CFLs are better than regular bulbs TODAY.
That’s a .svg file and I can’t open it at this time. My point is recycling is not free and most lights will never be recycled anyway. It is a crime when even the most easily recycled non-toxic items are thrown in landfills or incinerated such as AL, glass, or cardboard. There is also a lot more than just mercury in these things, there’s a lot of expensive electronics including capacitors. The lifetime of these things, in our experience has not been that great. We only use a few in rooms where they are going to be on for extended periods, everywhere else we use incandescents. If CFL’s were mandated and they were suddenly used everywhere, many would be used improperly. This would drastically change all estimates of savings. I don’t see anything that takes all of this into consideration.
#16 FoetusNail: “If CFL’s were mandated and they were suddenly used everywhere, many would be used improperly.”
Exactly. This is what drives me, as a lighting designer insane. Manditory laws with no regard to actual conditions of use.
DCulberson’s office is a perfect condition to use CFL: 8+ hours a day in fixtures with adequate ventilation. Every ceiling fixture in my apartment does not have any ventilation at all, therefore CFLs last about one, possibly two years. I’m not going to swap out fixtures in an apartment I’m leaving in a year or two.
If and when the US passes a law like Australia, expect to see me at every store picking up 60 watt bulbs like they’re anti-zombie spray for the upcoming apocalypse.
What kind of propaganda is this? Sad.
As per:
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/annoyance-of-energy-efficient-lighbulbs.html
“There is a small amount in each bulb but it does add up to when you realize that hundreds of millions of them will be discarded every year.”
And for you mercury lovers – why don’t you go back to mercury thermometers if mercury is so harmless?
Plus the light CFLs emit is deadly depressing…No, things have NOT moved on – as Greenpeace will lead you to believe on their page below:
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/climate/cfl-bulbs-the-myths
They STILL suck. And it’s disappointing that Greenpeace is promoting this crap.
NEMA – the trade association for the electrical manufacturing industry had a PDF file on their site outlining the dangers of mercury in CFLs. Guess what – it’s now been removed. Not surprisingly, the members of its Lamp section are: GE, Philips, Osram etc. Read the copy of the document here:
http://www.greencambridge.org/epafactsheet-cfl.pdf
It says:
“…every product containing mercury should be handled with care. Exposure to mercury, a toxic metal, can affect our brain, spinal cord, kidneys and liver, causing symptoms such as trembling hands, memory loss, and difficulty moving.”
Wonder why this got removed…
How enviromental is it putting tons of mercury in homes all around the world? Bollocks.
While metallic mercury isn’t nearly as toxic as organic mercury compounds, metallic mercury vapor is still not something you want to screw around with, and it has a very high vapor pressure, so a big chunk of it will vaporize if you have some sitting around. You probably don’t have to worry much if you break a CFL, but I would still at least ventilate the room for a while. From Wikipedia:
Case control studies have shown effects such as tremors, impaired cognitive skills, and sleep disturbance in workers with chronic exposure to mercury vapour even at low concentrations in the range 0.7–42 μg/m3.[38][39]
A study has shown that acute exposure (4–8 hours) to calculated elemental mercury levels of 1.1 to 44 mg/m3 resulted in chest pain, dyspnea, cough, hemoptysis, impairment of pulmonary function, and evidence of interstitial pneumonitis.[40]
Acute exposure to mercury vapor has been shown to result in profound central nervous system effects, including psychotic reactions characterized by delirium, hallucinations, and suicidal tendency. Occupational exposure has resulted in broad-ranging functional disturbance, including erethism, irritability, excitability, excessive shyness, and insomnia. With continuing exposure, a fine tremor develops and may escalate to violent muscular spasms. Tremor initially involves the hands and later spreads to the eyelids, lips, and tongue. Long-term, low-level exposure has been associated with more subtle symptoms of erethism, including fatigue, irritability, loss of memory, vivid dreams, and depression.[41][42]
WTF?! Did your pediatrician give you a bag of rusty nails and a trial-size bottle of strychnine?
Although… acute mercury poisoning turns your saliva black, and the sugar in lollipops rots your teeth, of course… I can’t decide if you had the smartest or the dumbest dentist in history.
A#16 FoetusNail,
The comparison does not consider recycling. In other words, throw both bulbs out after 5 years and the CF is still a win for the environment.
Oh and if you can’t view SVG, then it may be time to recycle your browser
I seem to recall recently a law *mandating* CFLs by 2014…?
If true, I’ll be stocking a warehouse with incandescent bulbs and holding them until store shelves run dry, then selling them as ‘novelties’ on eBay for a massive markup to people nostalgic for that ‘old yellow glow’.
10,000 CFLs with 5mg of mercury being tossed out by a major metropolitan area and leeching into the groundwater supply? Problem.
Quick point: that’s 50g of mercury. It has a density of 13g/cc. So we’re looking at just under 4ml of mercury for all those bulbs. That’s not much. That’s not enough to fill a paper cup.
Mercury is nothing to be afraid of. Do you ever think about gasoline? It contains several known carcinogens. It can be absorbed through the skin, ingestion and inhalation of the vapours. We deal with this stuff daily and it is much more toxic than mercury. Consider draino crystals – they are sodium hydroxide. Incredibly strong caustic, a splash in the face can blind you within in seconds.
Before you start worrying about mercury, look at the toxic chemicals you use daily. They make mercury look like table salt.
These filthy lightbulbs are alien-made, the Doctor will come to save us all
Don’t tell everyone this!!
It’s one of the best arguments against CFLs and – let’s be honest – they are ugly, slow to light up and DIM compared to incandescent bulbs.
The EU is already planning to ban incandescents (I’m hoarding some!) and we need all the ammunition against CFLs we can get.
Hoddy
I don’t like CFLs – I don’t like the colouring, I don’t like the delay, and I wouldn’t use them properly (I tend not to have them on for 8 hours a day, for example).
But so much for stockpiling incandescents – our government here is South Africa isn’t banning the sale of them, like in Australia: no, they want to ban the *use* of them. So even if you want to buy a warehouse full now, soon you won’t be able to legally use them (of course, enforcement of that law is a another issue, but it will be illegal).
What kind of propaganda is this? Sad.
As per:
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/annoyance-of-energy-efficient-lighbulbs.html
“There is a small amount in each bulb but it does add up to when you realize that hundreds of millions of them will be discarded every year.”
And for you mercury lovers – why don’t you go back to mercury thermometers if mercury is so harmless?
Plus the light CFLs emit is deadly depressing…No, things have NOT moved on – as Greenpeace will lead you to believe on their page below:
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/climate/cfl-bulbs-the-myths
They STILL suck. And it’s disappointing that Greenpeace is promoting this crap.
NEMA – the trade association for the electrical manufacturing industry had a PDF file on their site outlining the dangers of mercury in CFLs. Guess what – it’s now been removed. Not surprisingly, the members of its Lamp section are: GE, Philips, Osram etc. Read the copy of the document here:
http://www.greencambridge.org/epafactsheet-cfl.pdf
It says:
“…every product containing mercury should be handled with care. Exposure to mercury, a toxic metal, can affect our brain, spinal cord, kidneys and liver, causing symptoms such as trembling hands, memory loss, and difficulty moving.”
Wonder why this got removed…
How enviromental is it putting tons of mercury in homes all around the world? Bollocks.
Quick point: that’s 50g of mercury. It has a density of 13g/cc. So we’re looking at just under 4ml of mercury for all those bulbs. That’s not much. That’s not enough to fill a paper cup.
Paper cup? That’s less than a teaspoon. Anyone remember the case a few years ago when some High School students discoverd a vat full of mercury in an old, abandoned factory? All fun and games until people come down with acute Hg poisioning.
Semiotix – Here’s the rest of the story, I was only about 6 years old, playing with a few grams of mercury without parental supervision. Now a school breaks a mercury thermometer and they evacuate the building and call in the haz-mat team.
What disposal method do stores and factories use for their long-tube-style florescent bulbs?
How about the ring-shaped florescent bulbs that have been used in kitchens for nigh on fifty years? Or the florescent tubes found in basements, shops, and garages? What did the millions of homeowners who have had to deal with broken or burned out bulbs of this sort do?
As far as I know, they . . . threw them in the dumpster or garbage can without a second thought.
Are all the trolls who are busting veins in indignation over CFLs going to mandate clean disposal for these?
@16 FoetusNail,
I am sure that you are younger than she, but I remember my then-80-year-old friend (now older and still-alive) telling me that when she was a girl, she and her 2 sisters would take a ball of mercury from a broken thermometer and put it in their mouths, shut their mouths and shake their heads wildly letting the little heavy ball ricochet around, hitting their teeth and the insides of their cheeks etc. For fun.
I remember that when I was in elementary school, kids (myself included) would always bring mercury from old broken thermometers to school and share it, taking turns to hold it in our hands and feel its sensual weight as it rolled around in out palms or squeezed through the spaces of our little clenched fists.
In Miami and New York in the 80s (I don’t know about now) you could buy big capsules filled with mercury at any Santeria store.
Worker exposure limit to inorganic Hg vapor is o.1 mg/m3. Anything you can do to limit exposure to either inorganic or organic Hg is very very wise.
the problem isn’t so much when one light bulb containing mercury breaks.. multiply that by the number broken on Sept 11 and mix in hundreds of clean up crew team members and wind-blown dust inhaled by passersby and silver being sold to the public from metal recovered after the disaster and you have a problem of epidemic proportions. This act of terrorism isn’t done claiming victims yet.
The Amish shall inherit the earth
Oct. 2, 2008 Could someone please explain to me the effects of standing in the middle of an exploding flourscent light bulb which happened to me today. I wonder should I have my eyes checked? I cannot find anything on what percautions one should check for. I can’t seem to find anything on the net and since I have implants in both eyes, I am a little concerned. I happened to find your site and thought someone may be of help.
Thank you for any response Lois
yeah so i touched murcury and my hand fell off, no joke!!
Mercury has been used in a variety of consumer products because it exhibits properties of both a metal and a liquid at room temperature, it is a good conductor of electricity, and it reacts precisely to temperature and pressure changes. Unfortunately, when these products are broken and the spilled mercury poured down the drain or when these products are disposed of in landfill sites, the mercury can become a part of the global mercury cycle. Mercury releases from products, as they break down in both active and closed landfills, may represent a significant pathway for the transport and eventual deposition of the toxin in various terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems. For example, if the total amount of mercury contained in a typical fluorescent tube (approximately 20 milligrams) were to mix completely and evenly in a body of water to contaminate around 20 000 litres of water beyond Health Canada limits for safe drinking water (0.001 milligrams of mercury per litre of water). In general, mercury may be released from municipal solid waste landfills as a trace component of landfill gas, which is generated during the decomposition of waste under anaerobic conditions, or in the liquid leachate flowing from the site.