Motorola, could you please tell your viral marketer to get out of our comments?

akbar56

#1 – 11:33 AM November 25, 2008

Whats really sad is the Krave's touch screen interface is crap.

Bledsoefilms

#2 – 11:36 AM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that. I'm working at BBtv right now, and I became a huge fan of-

oh.....

asdasd

#3 – 11:49 AM November 25, 2008

this guy really gets around:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=8hO&q=%22Ever+since+I+started+working+with+Motorola%22&btnG=Search&meta=

bardfinn

#4 – 11:50 AM November 25, 2008

What If ... It's actually the Singularity and we're bullying it moments after its nascence?

TINFOILHATMODEON

OM

#5 – 12:01 PM November 25, 2008

...Personally, I Krave the day that he takes that phone with him to the bath, and electrocutes himself. Either that, or he's forced to rush to the ER in order to have that Krave surgically removed because that gerbil is ringing up one hell of a long distance bill.

Marketers are scum, and viral marketers are the worst.

Jack

#6 – 12:07 PM November 25, 2008

Look Joel, I brought the Krave to the cuddle party and everyone loved it. Then again everyone loved that herb infused rag as well.

bardfinn

#7 – 12:07 PM November 25, 2008

I hear the W3C XHTML has some pretty awesome features.

styrofoam

#8 – 12:11 PM November 25, 2008

Yes, Michael hasn't been as aggressive with the Cirque account- only 7 or so posts on that.

Acrobats are cool, but Criss Angel kind of bothers me.

jahknow

#9 – 12:12 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that! I'm working for Bill O'Reilly right now, and became a huge fan of the Culture Wars. I especially like the way he loofahs my falafel. It's awesome!

shMerker

#10 – 12:14 PM November 25, 2008

I wonder what it's like for the people who write those comments when they get called out like this. Do they get freaked out by being called out, or are they aware that there are plenty of stupid people out there who will keep falling for this stuff. How exactly does one live with himself when a significant portion of his work revolves around manufacturing shoddy BS that can be so easily mocked? Will MGOODE decide that BoingBoing is too smart for him and move on, or is it enough that we've all had the * inserted into our brains in one more place?

* That brand he was talking about but I shouldn't acknowledge the "no bad press" effect without also trying to counteract it so iPhone, Blackberry, do you really need another cell phone? maybe that money could be given to someone worse off than you or used to pay off some debt. Maybe you spend so much time working to have things that you don't spend enough time with the friends and family that are really important to you. A new phone isn't going to change your life that much anyway.

Daemon

#11 – 12:23 PM November 25, 2008

My boss was just like that! So I killed and ate him! He tasted just great with Heinz 57 sauce! It was awsome!

oneswellfoop

#12 – 12:24 PM November 25, 2008

It's one thing if the viral marketing is...u know, good.. Involving some sort of media, well done video, good song, something like that. Not that it's respectable in that case, but at least it's not quite so effing stupid.
I'm not sure what percentage of the population falls into my category, but when I see bad or shoddily done advertising, I hold it against the company producing the product or service. While they may have built more brand awareness in my mind, for the next week, they've just lowered their chance that I'll consider them a legitimate option when I buy a new phone a year or a year and a half from now.
Lesson to huge corporation...negative associations last longer.

Anonymous Anonymous

#13 – 12:33 PM November 25, 2008

hey there,

we definitely aren't virally marketing the storm...

http://stormsucks.com

TheFirstMan

#14 – 12:34 PM November 25, 2008

=)
This makes me happy.

Takuan

#15 – 12:39 PM November 25, 2008

why does Motorola want to be associated with viral marketing ticks? Don't they value their brand? Or is it a deliberate act of war? What should the reply be?

Daemon

#16 – 12:39 PM November 25, 2008

My boss was just like that! So I killed and ate him! He tasted just great with Heinz 57 sauce! It was awsome!

clueless in brooklyn

#17 – 12:43 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so clueless.

Fred Ochsenhirt

#18 – 12:46 PM November 25, 2008

Run a Google search excluding the obvious (Apple, Nokia, RIM, phone, etc.) and watch Mr. Goode contort himself trying to insert the Krave into conversation. Here he is on a post about the auto industry. Or the SpringSource dm Server.

Halloween Jack

#19 – 12:47 PM November 25, 2008

Judas Priest, what an irritating site.

sehlat

#20 – 12:48 PM November 25, 2008

I notice MGOODE08's profile reads "No friends yet." Anybody want to bet it stays that way for a LONG time?

evilrooster

#21 – 12:48 PM November 25, 2008

This is just to post

I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
I hope will soon
be on
the Krave (motorola.com/krave)

Definitely
worth checking out
so loaded with features
and so awesome.

(Look, somebody was going to do it. Might as well be me.)

chroma

#22 – 12:56 PM November 25, 2008

I have promoted my own stuff here and on other blogs, too, but I try not to be a dick about it.

Here's a hypothetical situation. What if he offered full disclosure in every post? As in "I work for Motorola and think our phones are better." Would that have been OK?

Scaramouch

#23 – 12:57 PM November 25, 2008

Maybe someone needs to contact the Cirque Du Soleil social media manager - http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/iMedia_PC_Overview.aspx?ID=9415 - to let her know what kind of dork is representing her brand.

Marcelo

#24 – 12:57 PM November 25, 2008

Evil Rooster wins.

The Unusual Suspect

#25 – 1:04 PM November 25, 2008

I heard that the Motorola Krave (motorola.com/krave) is loaded with DRM, secretly forwards all your calls to Homeland Security, emits radiation that causes Global Warming, has a goatse screensaver that is not user-configurable, and covertly signals TSA goons to strip search you. Plus, every time you use it an anime fairy dies.

It's awesome!

darren

#26 – 1:07 PM November 25, 2008

It would've been better if you had bleeped-out the name of the product Motorola is trying to promote.

Kieran O'Neill

#27 – 1:07 PM November 25, 2008

#10: It's just like any other kind of sales. Hell, if the people running the astroturf companies were smart, they'd find a way of tracking where the traffic comes from - each "marketer" would use a specific set of url-embedded codes, and get a bonus based on the amount of traffic they generate. It can't possibly cost more than cold-calling, and could easily be contracted out to India or China, although they'd have to be quite picky about quality of English.

#21: LOL!

LaraH

#28 – 1:10 PM November 25, 2008

Shall we up the ante?
-----------------

... Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

Always with a Krave in reach.

A phone so awesome I have to preach.
...

---------------
That's WC Williams and TS Eliot. Can I get a Dickinson? Or Yeats - Yeats would be good.

And yeah I know that last line sucked. You try rhyming while your boss is in the room.

scorchio75

#29 – 1:19 PM November 25, 2008

@ #5

Nah, people who generalise so sweepingly tend to be scum. (Oh whoops, was I generalising too? Maybe I *am* scum.)

ptrourke

#30 – 1:34 PM November 25, 2008

Fumbling and fumbling in the sickening mire,
the market cannot hear the marketer:
things fall apart, cellphones are not sold -
a mediocre handset is loosed upon the world,
the astroturf tide is loosed, and everywhere
the bloggers' innocence is drowned.
The posts lack information, and what's worse,
are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the next Krave model is at hand.
The next Krave model! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of astroturf heaven
Troubles my sight . . .

Clifton

#31 – 1:36 PM November 25, 2008

Turning and turning in the widening gyre,
The falcon can not hear the falconer.

Reception falls apart; he should have used a Krave!
Its full touch screen is loosed upon the world.
The HTML web browser is loosed, and everywhere
Intelligent commentary by actual human beings is drowned.

takeshi

#32 – 1:36 PM November 25, 2008

@ chroma:

"What if he offered full disclosure in every post? As in 'I work for Motorola and think our phones are better.' Would that have been OK?"

Better if he'd said, "I work for an astroturfing firm that works for Motorola," or maybe somewhat more believably, "I work for some guy I met at a coffeeshop who works for an astroturfing firm who works for Motorola."

Clifton

#33 – 1:37 PM November 25, 2008

P.T. Rourke: You win.

reflex

#34 – 1:45 PM November 25, 2008

What if the guy actually works for Nokia and is just trying to make Moto look like crap? I find it almost impossible to believe that Moto would hire someone (or something - the comments are incredibly bot-like) to undertake such a retarded campaign.

Agies

#35 – 1:50 PM November 25, 2008

Of Krave the sharpest function,
That, just as we discern,
The Excellence defies us;
Securest gathered then
The fruit perverse to plucking,
But leaning to the sight
With the ecstatic limit
Of unobtained Delight

---
I had to do so little modification and yet it seems so right.

z7q2

#36 – 2:02 PM November 25, 2008

The thing that always gets me about viral marketers is how they think they will get away with it. Anyone can spend a few minutes on Google and out them because everything on the net is illuminated. And those that realize what's going on will tell the ones that don't and then everyone knows. With that in mind 'viral marketing' in the original sense is doomed to fail.

So take this advice Motorola - instead of paying that guy, just buy some ad space on BoingBoing. That's money better spent.

Antinous / Moderator

#37 – 2:06 PM November 25, 2008

Funnily enough, M Goode has been repeatedly banned for Motorola spamming at BB prime under various guises.

Anonymous Anonymous

#38 – 2:06 PM November 25, 2008

Ok this guy is sick - he posted this in the Gamer Girls forum. I'd bet mr. Goode is in his forties and just finished reading 'Viral marketing for dummies':

Had a dream about the Motorola Krave (motorola.com/krave). I dreamed that I was a proud new owner of the krave and ninjas invaded my bedroom to heist it. Out of nowhere I became a third degree black belt and thwarted the botched robbery attempt with my new martial arts skills, and breathed a sigh of relief as I grasped the krave and called my bff using the full touch screen keypad and speakerphone, only to wake up to realize I don't own one myself. A sad sad day.

http://thegamergirls.com/blogs/eric/41-dream.html

Oh and btw his other alias is djilla.

I've noticed a trend in the increase of humor sites content is taken from cell phone videos. With technology making it easier to capture moments like this, I have my sites set on the krave as my next choice in cell phones. Since i'm currently working with motorola, I get the jump on the latest technology and the krave is probably the best choice for anyone launching their own comedy site. check it out for yourself at .com/. Let the comedy begin!

ptrourke

#39 – 2:10 PM November 25, 2008

Clifton: Thanks. Nice to know I can put all those years of studying poetry to use once in a while.

Anonymous Anonymous

#40 – 2:14 PM November 25, 2008

Quick! Someone register MGOODE09 so we don't have to put up with this crap next year.

SamSam

#41 – 2:16 PM November 25, 2008

Somewhere, M. Goode is laughing with glee and sending bonus request forms to Motorola, now that we have an entire post dedicated to this and several poems extolling the virtues of the Krave.

Viral marketing only goes viral once it turns into a poetry meme on BoingBoing.

jvilhuber

#42 – 2:22 PM November 25, 2008

brought to you by carl's junior.

thegiantsnail

#43 – 2:26 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my viral marketeer isn't like that! I'm unemployed right now, and have become a big fan of unemployment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment)
I especially like posting stupid things on blogs.

chimpy

#44 – 2:35 PM November 25, 2008

you said Is
there anything which
is dead or alive more beautiful
than a Krave,to have in your fingers
(trembling ever so little)?
Looking into
your screen Nothing,i said,except the
air of plastic smelling of never and forever.

....and through the glass which moved as
if a hand is touched by a
hand(which
moved as though
fingers touch a girl's
breast,
lightly)
Do you believe in Motorola,the wind
said to the rain
I am too busy with
my iPhone to believe,the rain answered

jornin

#45 – 2:39 PM November 25, 2008

Oh freddled Motorola,
Thy full touch screens displays are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits
On a lurgid bee
That mordiously hath bitled out
Its earted jurtles
Into a rancid festering viral marketing scheme
Now the jurpling slayjid bloggers
Are slurping hagrilly up the axlegrurts
And living glupules frart and slipulate
Like jowling meated liverslime
Krave, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes
And hooptiously drangle me
With crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or else I shall rend thee in the HTML web browser with my blurglecruncheon
See if I don't.

well it didn't make sense before I got to it, maybe someone can do a better job with this one.

Takuan

#46 – 2:53 PM November 25, 2008

just have an unhappy love affair?

oscar7g

#47 – 2:55 PM November 25, 2008

M Goode plants the seed.
Boing Boing grows the seed.

(apologies to the Young Ones)

Kieran O'Neill

#48 – 3:04 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my blog isn't like that! I'm posting comments on Boing Boing right now, and became a huge fan of the Moderation Policy (www.boingboing.net/2008/03/27/boing-boings-moderat.html). I especially like the way astroturfers are boiled up and eaten for breakfast, their bones used by the moderators and commentors to pick their teeth with. It's awesome!

Caroline

#49 – 3:06 PM November 25, 2008

What is with the phone names now, anyway? The Krave? I saw a commercial for one last night that was called the Rant. Boyfriend and I looked at each other and cracked up. Rant? Like, Razr is kind of cool, sounds steely and sharp and sleek. iPhone, well, they could hardly have called it anything else -- nothing else says "phone made by Apple" so succinctly. Blackberry, fine. But Rant and Krave? Sounds like some kind of dumb comedy duo.

Michael A. Banks

#50 – 3:16 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that--mainly because I don't have a boss!

The late Jim Baen was doing this in the mid-1980s, not only on The Source and other commercial services, but on BBSs around the country, as well.
--Mik

mmmgoode

#51 – 3:23 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that!I'm working for myself outing viral marketers and I'v e become a big fan of Micheal Good (mgoode08@gmail.com) the way he's all over the place posting crap about the Motorola Krave and all, he's awsome.

ZippySpincycle

#52 – 3:31 PM November 25, 2008

From Motorola's sleep I fell into the Krave,
And I hunched at its convenient touchscreen till my gnarled fingers froze.
Six miles from Starbucks, loosed from the dream of easy money,
I woke to blogs' snark and the nightmare moderators.
When I was banned they washed me out of the comments with a hose.

Anonymous Anonymous

#53 – 3:31 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that! Because if he was that kind of a Kraven pukebag, I'd have to decapitate him and put his head on a spike. Hell, I might do it anyway. Especially if I ever found out he owned a Motorola product, which as we all know are tools of the Devil.

Idle Tuesday

#54 – 3:44 PM November 25, 2008

From the evil of viral marketing comes the beauty of poetry. Thanks for the poems.

robulus

#55 – 3:47 PM November 25, 2008

Make no mistake, this is a critical battleground. You have acres of fertile ground ready to plant market visibility for young folks with high disposable income, and these guys want it.

As we write, chubby men in suits are gathered under fluorescent lights consuming weak coffee with stale doughnuts, getting the shit scared out of them by internet "gurus" with powerpoint presentations about marketing through online community building. They have to web2.0 (it's a verb) their website. They have to comment on Boing Boing with back links, and they have to use the word awesome.

And guess what? The presentation always finishes with the cover of the "gurus" new book.

And there's the rub. Whether this kind of strategy actually sells phones or not, a bunch of people make money selling anxiety about it.

gerg

#56 – 4:05 PM November 25, 2008

I have actually worked for motorola, and most of their products although well intentioned, are horrible to use. They've been riding on the success of the Razr for years, and haven't come up with anything better.

Not sure i've seen the krave phone, is it the same as the ruby?

UncommonSense

#57 – 4:10 PM November 25, 2008

#45 FTW!

spocko

#58 – 4:12 PM November 25, 2008

In the early days of the blogs I was at a meeting with a bunch of communications pros and pr folks. They were trying to get a handle on blogs and bloggers. One of the old PR guys said, "What's going to stop some company from giving these blogger's 100 bucks and say, "Go around and talk up our products"?

I said nothing. There were also some Flogs (fakeblogs) before there were blog spam comments and to up the Google ranks, blog farms.And of course some companies did just that with various degrees of skill. I find the whole viral marketing, when it is inauthentic, really distasteful.

Someone asked above about the various permutations of this activity, like "What if they disclosed" or "What if it is the competition?"

I don't mind full disclosure. It's honest, if they really want to make an impact be a member of a community so your comments aren't drive-by. (Why am I giving them advice?) If they are really really smart they will be honest about the product. Not enough companies understand that pretending that their product is perfect is a mistake. Acknowledge the flaws. I think people appreciate it. But I think that people in charge of marketing can't get sign off on that kind of marketing. "You want us to DIS our own product?" "Just the really crappy stuff that you don't like either, trust me, if we acknowledge the crappy stuff and focus on the good stuff we will do better than to say our crap smells like flowers."

I've read a lot about these viral marketing companies and campaigns and I think the reason that they bug me so much is the sense of using people's trust to trick them into buying something. It's a cheap trick and it really turns me off when it is discovered.

I do like good advertising, especially funny stuff and clever video is fine.

I think people today are sophisticated to understand meta advertising jokes and they are also sophisticated to get angry when they they have been tricked.

pewma

#59 – 4:14 PM November 25, 2008

And.... the birth of a meme.

Anonymous Anonymous

#60 – 4:34 PM November 25, 2008

Get yer Motorolin'
On the (information) superhighway
Gotta do some spammin'
Born to be reviled

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that. We play foosball at work. Hey, I fell in love with Ubuntu, but I'm kraving some falafel right now.

Dear Motorola: it's worse than wasting your money. You're buying negative publicity. Fire the idiot who conceived this nonsense.

p96

#61 – 4:34 PM November 25, 2008

The several models of Motorola phones that work provided with Nextel had awful sound quality no matter how good the signal was. I tried many models and had work pay extra to get a Blackberry on Nextel instead. The fact that the Blackberry had significantly better voice quality indicates that it was a problem with the codec commonly used in Motorola phones and not the Nextel network (which has its own set of issues, like missed calls and delayed voicemail).

If you have trouble understanding people with a Motorola phone, try a Blackberry or iPhone.

buddy66

#62 – 5:15 PM November 25, 2008

ZippySpincycle,

How singular. A parody of Randall Jarrell? Wow. You must have a fifty-year-old anthology at hand.

Your grandfather's?

Phikus

#63 – 5:56 PM November 25, 2008

PTRourke@30, Jornin@45, and all others here who crafted up some literary allusion: Those were full of tasty win!

Anon@61: I thought you were still doing lyrics as I read that with the song in my head. So, I'll finish it for you. (It's about time we went low-brow.)

BORN TO BE TURFED

Get yer Motorolin'
On the (information) superhighway
Gotta do some spammin'
on whatever blog comes our way.

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that.
We play foosball at work. Hey!
I fell in love with Ubuntu, man and
I just love this Krave

I like hypin' typin'
Total 'turfin blunder
Racin' with the mods here
And the quotas that I'm under

Yeah Darlin' go make it happen
The whole world is a marketing race
Fire off nonsequitor endorsements, babe
And let them fill cyberspace

Born to be reviled
Born to be reviled

Like a true corporate child
We were born, born to be reviled
With 'turf so high
I'm always gonna lie

Born to be reviled
Born to be reviled

O

#64 – 5:59 PM November 25, 2008

The saddest thing is that because of this, I've actually visited the krave site.
Thanks BB Gadgets!

ROSSINDETROIT

#65 – 6:02 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad my boss isn't like that! I'm self employed and... you know, actually that's just what I'm like a lot of the time.
Never mind.

ThreeFJeff

#66 – 6:17 PM November 25, 2008

Ugh. Motorola. Of course they'd have to pay someone to spooge that much about one of their products. My favorite comment in any code that I've written is:

/* And this, dear reader, is why we don't let the engineers design the user interface. If you need any further proof, just look at any Motorola product */

(Yes, there is a WTF in the vicinity of that comment, but it's just a tongue-in-cheek printf... Since it was an internal test rig, I didn't feel guilty about it. And yes, I was working for a competitor of Motorola at the time, why do you ask?)

hagbard

#67 – 6:26 PM November 25, 2008

(once like a jerk)

if strangers post
life begins-
not poor not rich
(only a krave)
kind neither
nor cruel
(only awesome)
i not not you
not possible;
only truthful
-truthfully,once
if strangers(who
started working for
Motorola)touch:
forever

(and so to dork)

Anonymous Anonymous

#68 – 6:30 PM November 25, 2008

Beware the Kraven Hordes!!!!1!

bwcbwc

#69 – 6:32 PM November 25, 2008

You know given that Motorola has at least SOME technical expertise, maybe MGoode really IS a bot/webcrawler. A human could've setup the login accounts on the websites, and all they have to do is scan BB for anything marginally relevant.

Itsumishi

#70 – 6:34 PM November 25, 2008

I'm so glad Joel Johnson is like that! I work for a small non-profit organisation, and I've become a huge fan of pretending to work while I suppress laughter at various BoingBoing Gadgets posts. (gadgets.boingboing.net). It's awesome.

Super Nate

#71 – 6:37 PM November 25, 2008

in a middle of a room
stands a suicide
sniffing a Paper rose
smiling to a self

"somewhere it is Spring and sometimes
people are in real:imagine
somewhere real flowers,but
I can't imagine real flowers for if I

could,they would somehow
not Be real"
(so he asks
smiling)"but for Motorolla

always my new job
astroturf your blog"
The is krave
with motorola.com/krave

"& everything is easier
than I had guessed full sized touch screen
could be;even remembering the way I
wished,for a mobile platform port

(a moon swims out of a cloud
a clock strikes midnight
a finger pulls a trigger
a bird flies into a mirror)

Takuan

#72 – 6:58 PM November 25, 2008

WE NEED MORE POWER!
http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:MOT

usonia

#73 – 7:07 PM November 25, 2008

What I don't get is that he's not working FOR motorola, he's working WITH them? Like working with them to reduce the number of noise complaints at their end of the cul-de-sac? Or they both tem atthe same daiye spa? Is it full disclosure, in a winking way? I, M. Goode, viral marketeer, amd working WITH motorola on this great subtle new viral scheme?
Wussup with that?

Jayel Aheram

#74 – 8:04 PM November 25, 2008

Well, it worked. For one thing, I was made aware that the Krave existed and actually ended up checking it out.

All in all, it was a success.

It would be even better if all the blogs complained about him (and post links to his comments with the URL prominently displayed).

Trnck

#75 – 8:04 PM November 25, 2008

Since I was working with Motorola, I fell in love with motorola.com/crave... Trust me, you will fall in love with crave too.

Anonymous Anonymous

#76 – 8:07 PM November 25, 2008

Depressingly, MGoode's tireless marketroidinating has succeeded - I had not heard of this phone until today.

snej

#77 – 8:26 PM November 25, 2008

Much have I traveled in the realms of blogs
And many goodly sites and comments seen;
With many whizzy cellphones have I been
Which hacks in fealty to Apple hold.
Oft of one hot KRAVE I had been told
That old Motorola plugged so virally
Yet never did I breathe its pure serene
Till I heard MGOODE08 speak out loud and bold:
Then I felt like some watcher of c|net
When a new gadget blinks into his ken;
Or like stout Mossberg when with eagle eyes
He dissed the brick-like KRAVE and its touchscreen
So like a desperate bling'd-out pile of spoodge
Unsellable, except by subterfuge.

chicobangs

#78 – 8:27 PM November 25, 2008

Clearly, this person works for Nokia, and they are a total capital-G GENIUS.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

#79 – 8:50 PM November 25, 2008

Buddy66, "The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner" is a classic. I recognized it immediately, and I'm no one's grandmother. I also ID'd all the WWI poems in the Boing Boing competition, and I'm definitely not old enough to remember their first publication.

Takuan

#80 – 9:02 PM November 25, 2008

yeah but ya said "High Flier" ISO "High Flight" nyah nyah nyah!

OM

#81 – 9:10 PM November 25, 2008

...Kids, not to spoil your fun, but isn't Teresa's poetry contest over with? :-P

Takuan

#82 – 9:14 PM November 25, 2008

you just don't understand art.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

#83 – 9:29 PM November 25, 2008

Takuan, I'll tell you right now that I'm not good with titles. Text, I remember. What it's called is more mutable.

Om @81: The first poetry contest is over. But as we established, any poems previously written in other threads were eligible to be re-posted in the contest thread. Therefore, assuming that they fit the theme, any thread-appropriate poems posted here or in other BB/BBTV/BBG/Offworld comments will likewise be eligible for later contests.

For that matter, does it say anywhere in the moderation guidelines that comments may not be written out as dialogue and stage directions, scholarly backmatter, or double crostics? It does not.

Anonymous Anonymous

#84 – 9:33 PM November 25, 2008

Oh wow, we've been getting spam from the same guy (or same campaign at least) for a month or so now. I usually just edit 'krave' for 'GENERIC MOTOROLA PHONE #X163-9' or something. It makes for good laughs!

-Nahu from Dark Diamond

Takuan

#85 – 9:37 PM November 25, 2008

poetry improves the tone of the joint, keeps out the riff raff. Next: Bilksongs: people should post in audio files of their own voices lifted in ribald song. Plenty of precedent, Dark Lords help us, extra points for musical accompaniment. (is "bilksong OK?, anybody coined anything better? - folk-filk-bilk...)

Takuan

#86 – 9:44 PM November 25, 2008

OK, turns out there's an "Acker Bilk". AND a "John Bolk"... screw it, I'm keeping "bilk song").

E0157H7

#87 – 9:47 PM November 25, 2008

Wow, M Goode! I feel like going out and buying an exorbitantly expensive touchscreen phone right now! Thanks for the informative and on-topic comments.
Oh, wait. That's unadulterated loathing and irritation I'm feeling. Pardon me, I got a little confused. What I actually meant to say is thanks for reinforcing my dislike of Motorola mobile devices and obnoxious marketing attempts.

buddy66

#88 – 10:08 PM November 25, 2008

Takuan,
Forgot most of the lyrics for "Bang Bang Lulu" years ago, or I'd take you upon it.

Teresa,
So Jarrell's sad little gem is now a classic? Damn, turn your back for a few minutes and the kids grow up. There is a line of his from another poem that I KNEW would make it: "Men wash their hands in blood as best they can." Did it?

Anonymous Anonymous

#89 – 10:13 PM November 25, 2008

I'd hate to think so, but it must be considered, that this is a smear campaign on those particular brands in the style of the old political trick of ringing people in the night with an automated message promoting their opponent.

In that case, following the link =/= following the money.

ratdreams

#90 – 11:00 PM November 25, 2008

My boss made me say
I especially like the
full touch screen display

5-7-5

ThomasGHenry

#91 – 11:08 PM November 25, 2008

dissemination
of motorola krave spam
encourages it

Anonymous Anonymous

#92 – 11:29 PM November 25, 2008

Usonia@73: The reason he always phrased it as "working WITH Motorola" is that he's not an employee, he's an Independent Contractor (tm). Piecework for pennies a comment.

hagbard

#93 – 11:42 PM November 25, 2008

This is my krave post
There are many like it, but
This one is awesome

Secret_Life_of_Plants

#94 – 11:50 PM November 25, 2008

Can I just mention that I used to have a Motorola phone and the thing was designed so that the volume button was on the outside, so sometimes if something was pressing up against it in my backpack it would just beep really loudly with every step I took. I would never buy another Motorola phone again.

Takuan

#95 – 12:10 AM November 26, 2008

here ya go Buddy:

Bang Bang Lulu

Lulu had two boyfriends, both of them were rich
One was the son of a baker, the other was the son of a ...

Behind the refrigerator lies a piece of glass
Johnny tried to get it and fell upon his ...

Ask me nor more questions, I'll tell me o more lies
The boys are in the bathroom, pulling down their...

Flies in the buttermilk, shoo fly shoo
Flies in the buttermilk, shoo
Flies in the buttermilk, shoo fly shoo
And that's the end of Lululu

Also sung with a chorus of:
Bang bang Lulu, Lulu bang bang
Who's gonna bang for Lulu
When Lulu's gone away

Or with a chorus of
I yi yi yi, in China they do it for chili
Here comes another verse that's worse than the other verse
So waltz me around again Willie

Note: bang bang was really gang bang, I'm told, but at that age
who knew that bang meant anything but a loud noise, so we sang
bang bang."

Takuan

#96 – 12:18 AM November 26, 2008

or maybe this'll inspire ya;
A CLEAN SONG
There was a young sailor
Who looked through the glass,
And spied a fair mermaid
With scales on her island
Where seagulls
Fly over their nests
She combed the long hair
That hung over her shoulders
And caused her
To tickle and itch.
The sailor cried out
"There's a beautiful mermaid,"
A-sitting out
There on the rocks,
The crew came around
A-grabbing their glasses
And crowded four deep
To the rail,
All eager to share
In this fine piece of news.
Which the captain soon
Heard from the watch.
He tied down the wheel
And he reached for his crackers
And cheese which
He kept near the door.
In case he might someday
Encounter a mermaid.
He knew he must
Use all his wits
Crying "Throw out a line.
We'll lasso her flippers."
And then we will
Certainly find
If mermaids are better
Before or be brave
My good fellows."
The captain then said.
"With fortune we'll break
Through her mermaiden head-
-ing to starboard
They tacked with dispatch.
And caught that fair mermaid
Just under her elbows
And hustled her
Down below decks,
And each took a turn
At her feminine setting
Her free at the end
Of the farce,
She splashed in the waves,
Falling flat on her after
A while one man
Noticed some scabs,
Soon they broke out with the pox
And the scratching
With fury,
Cursing with spleen,
This song may be dull
But it's certainly clean.

CraziestGadgetsdotcom

#97 – 12:28 AM November 26, 2008

I wonder if he works with "arobjones" who commented on my site on a Barack Obama post with the name "SadFacedMcCain":

I guess that’s a perk of being the President-Elect. I work with Motorola and one great thing about it is getting to know all of the great phones they put out. The Krave is one of them and it’s design is really new age…

R.

ZippySpincycle

#98 – 12:58 AM November 26, 2008

Buddy66, for once I feel compelled to say "I'm not THAT young" instead of "I'm not THAT old." Which I guess is pretty much the definition of middle-aged.

I first came across "The Death of the Ball-Turret Gunner" in an anthology in high school, in the late 1970's. I'd always been an aviation nut, and Jarrell's "sad little gem" (yes!) was a helpful counterpoint to the plastic models of B-17's and B-24's I was always building--and a good precursor to discovering Catch-22 shortly afterward.

ptrourke

#99 – 12:59 AM November 26, 2008

"Death of the Ball Turret Gunner" has been taught in schools for at least thirty years; if that doesn't qualify as canon, I don't know what does.

Giraffe

#100 – 1:46 AM November 26, 2008

blowing it.

arkizzle / Moderator

#101 – 2:48 AM November 26, 2008

Wait, did CraziestGadgetsdotcom @95 just pull another MGoode, right under our noses?

Dirty rotten.. :)

Tatterdemalion

#102 – 3:36 AM November 26, 2008

Two phones diverged in an online thread,
And sorry I could not purchase both
And be one gadgeteer, long I read
And considered one as far the data led
To where it lay painted in Astroturf;

Then took the other, just as awesome,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because the ads were far less frothsome;
Though as for that the posting there
Had touted them really about the same.

Anonymous Anonymous

#103 – 4:47 AM November 26, 2008

Dear Lisa, as I write this, I am very sad. Our president has been overthrown and [gruff man voice] replaced by the benevolent general Krave. All hail Krave and his glorious new regime! Sincerely, Little Girl.

a_user

#104 – 4:52 AM November 26, 2008

Plus, every time you use it an anime fairy dies.

That actually tempts me to try it

zanbowser

#105 – 6:21 AM November 26, 2008

i think MGOODE08's a pretty cool guy. eh turfs BBG and doesn't afraid of anything.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

#106 – 7:34 AM November 26, 2008

I think it's awesome that PTRourke and Clifton wrote simultaneous pastiches of the same poem.

In re astroturf and guerrilla marketing: It doesn't bother me when registered BB users with a comment history theorize that this might be a clever campaign by one of Motorola's competitors. However, given that this thread is a fairly high-profile PR disaster for the Motorola/Krave campaign -- and I hope the innocent Anonymi won't take this personally -- I'm a little uneasy when comments to that effect come in anonymously.

Reflex @34:

What if the guy actually works for Nokia and is just trying to make Moto look like crap? I find it almost impossible to believe that Moto would hire someone (or something - the comments are incredibly bot-like) to undertake such a retarded campaign.

I've been tracking this subject for years now -- the whole astroturf/paid commenting/comment spam/fake letters to the editor/pass-along emails/Wikipedia tampering/guerrilla marketing/viral marketing nexus -- and the commercial marketing end of it has produced a long string of disastrously clueless campaigns. It's a staple of online business journalism:

Examining Viral Marketing Disasters.
Lame and Lamer: 10 Dumbest Viral Marketing Campaigns.
Five Worst-Executed Viral Marketing Campaigns.
Motrin. Sony PSP. Vonage. Nokia.

To name but a few.

When marketers and/or PR flacks and/or corporate execs who don't know what they're doing launch "viral marketing campaigns," the results can be painful. The canonical example is Wal-Mart. Their early astroturf projects were like watching an elephant with an inner-ear problem learning to rollerskate, and their later efforts haven't been much better. Wal-Mart's got a real knack for bad PR. Their characteristic maneuver is to announce that they've now seen the light, they understand the importance of honesty and transparency, and that they're giving up lying, deception, and their whole paranoid, adversarial corporate style -- just in time for their next astroturfing scandal to break.

Basic search strings for this: edelman wal-mart, wal-mart "new yorker", and wal-mart edelman gawker. Useful addenda: hub, paidcritics.com, "working families for wal-mart", "wal-marting across america", flog, check out blog, SCLC, "deborah shank", and greenwashing. For the gritty details, read http://WalMartWatch.com.

(Why do I have it in for Wal-Mart? Look at some older Boing Boing comment threads on stories about Wal-Mart. See if you can spot the patterns.)

On a lighter note: this was an as-it-happens I wrote when a movie called The Science of Sleep set up a promotional fake LJ community which quickly turned into a PR disaster. On the political front, this is a note on McCain's campaign, which repeatedly got caught doing stuff like astroturfing, soliciting comment spam, and having volunteers write fraudulent letters to the editor.

Kieran @27:

Hell, if the people running the astroturf companies were smart, they'd find a way of tracking where the traffic comes from - each "marketer" would use a specific set of url-embedded codes, and get a bonus based on the amount of traffic they generate. It can't possibly cost more than cold-calling, and could easily be contracted out to India or China, although they'd have to be quite picky about quality of English.

The bad actors to watch out for are the campaigns that can afford good people. Corporate image campaigns can have fat budgets. Political campaigns can exploit their volunteers. Long-term disinformation campaigns use a small number of good writers, and target their efforts.

Every moderator I know hates this crap.

xopl

#107 – 7:54 AM November 26, 2008

What is even happening in this thread?! WOW!

Nothing beats the Trepanasaurus, though. I'm sad to discover it was purely the invention of boingboing user Secret_Life_of_Plants. I was hoping for some additional lulz via google. I thought it was a real crypto!

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

#108 – 8:00 AM November 26, 2008

XOPL, did you see the "We can has games" thread on Boing Boing?

Teresa Nielsen Hayden

#109 – 8:14 AM November 26, 2008

Further sightings of this guy:

Japanese scientists cloning mammoths remind him of Krave.

Tanya's Tasty Tips on the Fox News health blog are the kind of information he keeps track of via Krave.

Need Sarah Palin Lookalike ASAP for Adult Film causes him to muse lubriciously about Sarah Palin's hands caressing the Krave's HUGE touch screen.

He thinks 5 State Skits That Should Be Movies would be awesome to see streaming over his Krave.

The Hands-on/Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix evokes nostalgia in him for the old days of game arcades, leading him to wish that more nostalgic game titles could be developed for portable devices, like his Krave.

This guy is having to write at top speed on a wide range of subjects, so his internal censors are turned off. What do you want to bet that if we collected enough of these messages, we could reconstruct a map of his life?

Phikus

#110 – 9:16 AM November 26, 2008

There once was a man with Motorola
Who decided that blogs he would troll-a
He pulled out his Krave
And thought he would rave
But they called him a 'turfing ass-hole-a

There once was a guy called MGoode
Who figured that 'turfing, he should
He pandered his boss
Who'd be reading his dross
And the rest of us could go suck wood

There once were some PDA snobs
Who lived just to cut down Steve Jobs
And though they were kraven
Money they'd be savin'
Their phone was from Calvin & Hobbs

BBNinja

#111 – 10:22 AM November 26, 2008

I have to deep down, in my heart of hearts, believe that this is someone whose sole purpose is to give Motorola a bad (worse) name. There is no way Motorola could have possibly hired someone so inane, confoundedly over-obvious and completely outright stupid.

Takuan

#112 – 11:14 AM November 26, 2008

sure about that?

Anonymous Anonymous

#113 – 1:25 PM November 26, 2008

Hey Boingers,
My name is MGOODE08, and I market to every single one of you. All of you are bright, with-it, early adopters who spend every second of their day looking at the bleeding age of the gadget world. You are everything fun in the world. Honestly, how do you deal with all the enjoyment you get? I mean, I know it's fun getting the latest and greatest, but you all take to a whole new level. That's even better than masturbating with cyber-sex toys.

Don't be a stranger. Just hit me with your best shot. My product line is pretty much perfect. It will answer phones, surf the Web for you, and do email. What other phone could you want, other than "open-source but crappily-made G1s"? I also get market Cirque du Soleil, I've got a ringing hot phone (I just flicked a page on its internet browser; It was SO krave).
You are all good-guy geeks who should just buy some of my stuff for yourselves. Thanks for listening.
Pic Related: It's me and my phone.

holtt

#114 – 3:19 PM November 26, 2008

Beyond that they are limited just to BB (and it's his in part to do with as he wants), Corey's posts about the serialization of that novel and a lot of the early Little Brother posts have almost the same tone or style as the Krave posts. Same repetition (copy/paste) of phrases and links, etc.

Just sayin' (as they say)

Anonymous Anonymous

#115 – 3:26 PM November 26, 2008

The cirque du soleil comment looked awfully familiar to some fishy cirque du soleil comments that had been posted no a forum I frequent, so I looked to google, and man, more astroturfing. I suspect this was done by M Goode's "associate" who "got to see the show"

Downpressor

#116 – 4:52 PM November 26, 2008

@114 yer cruising for a banning if you talk like that

Alli

#117 – 5:11 PM November 26, 2008

Hey #95 (Takuan)

When we were younger (eight or nine) it wasn't Lulu, it was Miss Lucy, as in:

Miss Lucy has a steamboat, the steamboat had a bell,
Miss Lucy went to heaven and the steamboat went to

Hello operator, please give me number 9,
and if you disconnect me I will shove it up your

Behind the fridgerator, there is a piece of glass,
and if you dare to step on it it'll go right up your

ask me no more questions, tell me no more lies,
the boys are in the bathroom pulling down their

flies are in the country, bees are in the park,
boys n girls are kissing in the d-a-r-k d-a-r-k d-a-r-k dark-dark-dark.

Amazing the complexities we went thru trying to get away with cursing and talking "dirty". I can't wait to hear the version my 4 yr old learns when he's older. Like...6

Takuan

#118 – 8:35 PM November 26, 2008

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbZCticI4g

PoisonedV

#119 – 11:33 PM November 26, 2008

Nice going- you guys just made it viral.
watch the sales roll in now
Once again, the stupidity of the average blog commenter amazes me

tamar

#120 – 7:07 AM November 27, 2008

"Marketers are scum, and viral marketers are the worst."

Not entirely true or a fair assessment. This guy just doesn't know how to do his job properly.

Phikus

#121 – 8:36 AM November 27, 2008

Poisonedv: The kind of people who will respond positively to this kind of thing are the kind of people who would respond to SPAM. There's no helping them. Meanwhile, we've been having a lot of fun at their expense. Sorry that was lost on you.

For the few that respond favorably, I'll bet that, among the readers and posters here, the product has become so infamous because of this tactic that we would never consider buying or evangelizing one, going forward. You look and see only idiots and I look and respect the intelligence of this community enough to enjoy furthering the new meme without worrying about the few who might be duped by this extra exposure into participating with them by driving sales. To my view, they have lost far more than they had hoped to gain, at least among intelligent people, many of whom drive the hi-tech industry.

Motorola's brand has been tarnished in my eyes and I will think twice before buying any of their products from now on, just as I have never given any of my hard earned cash to Bill Gates. What they may have gained in the short term may not prove to be anything lasting because of such chicanery. I hope that in the future, the effect of our fun at their expense and the mud on their face from this becoming a meme may make them think twice about employing such tactics. Imho, this is pure win.

holtt

#122 – 10:24 AM November 27, 2008

Phikus, it's my belief that we get swayed by this kind of astroturf all the time. Except what we usually see is astroturf generated directly by the creators of the product as opposed to a hired marketing turfer.

A lot of people with a blog, a smaller market product, an indie game, and so forth HAVE to do this kind of thing so that others know about their offering. They have to give links, they have to use key words to help get web searches to respond. Probably not everyone does it consciously, but it happens - a lot.

And I'm not saying it's bad, but I really do believe that BB is a fairly good example of a site that games the internet as it were, not unlike Motorola. About any site that mentions their own name and product, or includes links in posts to other posts or other sites is doing this. They all want to be linked to, get found by web searches and mentioned in other blogs.

But what they are NOT doing is trying to "trick" anyone with hired mercenary sincerity or belief. And that's the big difference between BB and Motorola.

So what's a term for astroturf when it's sincerely created by the owners of the product, versus astroturf generated by third parties for pay?

Takuan

#123 – 12:06 PM November 27, 2008

"astroturf" by definition cannot be generated by someone under their own roof. Why is this so hard to understand?

Phikus

#124 – 5:53 PM November 27, 2008

Holtt: Takuan answered that question, but maybe I can shed further light on the subject.

If BB Gadgets featured a review of the Krave and MGoode signed on with full disclosure, providing some helpful insight pointing out cool features or whatever, that would be one thing, but the approach of pasting the same text into as many quasi- or downright un-related topics as possible is pure SPAM. It does nothing to participate in a discussion productively.

Imagine if you had a friend who, in every context in which you are socializing with them, worked in a scripted product promoting blurb right out of a commercial. It might be amusing at first, but within an hour or two of hanging out with this person, it would get tiresome. If someone's opinion is shaped by who's paying them to evangelize their product (I swear this is the next step: astroturfing the meatspace. All they need is a way to verify it to their bosses, like a little floating camera-bot that can snap a shot of the audience being 'turfed) then it is not going to be trusted or enjoyed.

Conversely, if you are having a discussion about certain products with friends, and someone says: "Hey, I'm a marketing rep / contractor for (insert company here), and so I am biased, but I really like the (insert product related to the discussion at hand here) and here's why..." and they aren't just reciting a script, interactively answering questions and honestly comparing and contrasting similar products, then this is real grass that you can run through your fingers.

Put another way, it is the difference between someone talking with you and someone talking at you, ascribing dollar signs on you for listening all the while.

If we get to this point in my lifetime I want a scrambler that distorts my image in a 10' radius around me.

Takuan

#125 – 10:27 PM November 27, 2008

I want everyone to guess what I've been astroturfing.

Anonymous Anonymous

#126 – 1:48 PM November 28, 2008

I think I'd call this new phenomenon: "MotoTrolling"

Phikus

#127 – 9:48 AM November 29, 2008

Grass?

Wally B

#128 – 4:57 PM November 29, 2008

Doggles?

Takuan

#129 – 6:07 PM November 29, 2008

Phikus wins!

arkizzle / Moderator

#130 – 6:44 PM November 29, 2008

Phkus, regarding MeatSpace 'turfing: been done! They're called StreetSnitches

Naomi Klein talks about it in No Logo:

"Besides, even if there was a lost indigenous tribe of cool a few years back, rest assured that it no longer exists. It turns out that the prevailing legalized forms of youth stalking are only the tip of the iceberg: the Sputnik vision for the future of hip marketing is for companies to hire armies of Sputnik spawns —young "street promoters," "Net promoters" and "street distributors" who will hype brands one-on-one on the street, in the clubs and on-line. "Use the magic of peer-to-peer distribution — it worked in the freestyle sport cultures, mainly because the promoters were their friends.... Street promoting will survive as the only true means of personally 'spreading the word.'" So all arrows point to more jobs for the ballooning industry of "street snitches," certified representatives of their demographic who will happily become walking infomercials for Nike, Reebok and Levi's."

"By fall 1998 it had already started to happen with the Korean car manufacturer Daewoo hiring two thousand college students on two hundred campuses to talk up the cars to their friends. Similarly, Anheuser-Busch keeps troops of U.S. college frat boys and "Bud Girls" on its payroll to promote Budweiser beer at campus parties and bars.' The vision is both horrifying and hilarious: a world of glorified diary trespassers and professional eavesdroppers, part of a spy-vs.-spy corporate-fuelled youth culture stalking itself, whose members will videotape one another's haircuts and chat about their corporate keepers' cool new products in their grassroots newsgroups."

Phikus

#131 – 9:17 AM November 30, 2008

Takuan: Yay!
Arkizzle: Yikes!

Anonymous Anonymous

#132 – 12:24 PM December 2, 2008

i have worked for motorola in the past, and can tell you the company is in general incompetent

BBNinja

#133 – 9:01 AM December 3, 2008

Genocide in Darfur?

That reminds me of the new Krave by Motorala, which I am a huge fan of. I love this thing! Its got text messages, picture sending and a full touch screen!

jeviscachee

#134 – 1:04 PM December 3, 2008

@43: You made my day!

Anonymous Anonymous

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