Cult of Mac‘s Pete Mortensen is the latest to explain why “Windows 7 Starter Edition” is going to make cheap PCs suck.
I never feel like Apple is needlessly squeezing pennies out of me by charging more for the features that make it worthwhile to upgrade. … Starter is intended to make people want to buy the nicer versions of Windows 7. I think it’s net effect is more likely to be that people seriously consider alternatives.
On the contrary, Windows 7 Starter Edition reveals why the alternatives can’t beat Microsoft: because consumers just don’t care. This disinterest is so profound that Microsoft can not only design an intentionally bad product, but market it as such. It knows that most people will pay extra to stay rather than switch, regardless of whether the proposed alternative is better or cheaper.
Windows 7 Starter: A Comically Bad Idea [Cult of Mac]
Pete is right. there are plenty of alternatives well suited for netbook use now.
people may be lazy and stupid, but they can still see and hear
So guy from Mac site has a problem with Windows…
I’d be less surprised if someone less oh in the fray was saying this, but okay I’ll read, why not?
I still think propping up Microsoft during its early years (specifically, repeatedly letting them get away with marketing a broken IBM DOS so they could turn around and sell the MS labelled version with the fixes) may rank as one of the worst mistakes IBM ever made.
I think that stating “The Final Insult” is wildly optimistic regarding MS.
/PC guy
/MS hater
Why is the “better” link not also going to Ubuntu?
The attributes are not exclusive! Though, I still think that windows is better than linux from the perspective of people who don’t have much time to spare.
@#3… because the mac cult controls the interweb! (only kind of joking…)
i really don’t see an issue with this “starter” idea. i’ve got a dell mini 9 (which i will never turn into a hackintosh) running ubuntu. while i’ve had to relearn linux, i’ve been incredibly happy with it. that said, i NEVER have more than 2 or 3 apps running at the same time. trying to do that on a netbook is asking for slow responses and hanging, regardless of your OS. so if “starter” is MS’ way of getting a cheaper version of windows 7 onto netbooks, so be it. is it a bit of a scam? yeah, but no more so than most “free” software that you can upgrade to “full” versions for $30 (winamp, mediamonkey, et al).
“I never feel like Apple is needlessly squeezing pennies out of me by charging more for the features that make it worthwhile to upgrade.”
Yeah, they just over charge you and give you all the useless features without asking for your opinion, and then they of course lock out all functionality out of, say, Quick time and demand that you upgrade it. Which to me is worse because then you have to buy upgrades for each and every app you buy and if I have to buy an application to do video editing, I might as well buy one that is actually useful.
I was actually coming over to point out exactly what Rob said. You really to get what you pay for. OS X is great but expensive (HW+SW, in all these cases), Windows is moderately priced and of moderate quality, and Ubuntu/Linux is cheap and a pain in the ass. The fact that Ubuntu is better than the total crap distros from a few years back doesn’t mean it’s “good”. Linux fans have been saying the same for years, and it’s only now even starting to be true. (We’re talking desktop OS, here.) The sad fact of the matter is that Ease of Use/”It Just Works” is king here, and Ubuntu still has a way to go there.
I say that as a person currently running all three OSes on a daily basis at home. Macbook Pro as my primary machine, Win for gaming and vid encoding, and Ubuntu running XBMC in the living room.
Windows has had a starter edition with similar limitations for YEARS. They have traditionally only been available to developing countries where folks could buy this slightly crippled version of windows for a smaller price.
The only difference is that now it appears they’re marketing at netbooks, I don’t see what everyone is jumping on the waahmbulance for. It costs less, and you get less functionality, if you want more than this then PAY FOR THE BETTER VERSION. It’s very simple really.
who care for a windows version that nobody will see.
the Windows 7 Starter Edition, *is not* for netbook but for “emerging nationsâ€.
in USA/UE/etc there are only Home and Pro version.
#8 – This was the initial idea, but now MS says that they will allow it to be sold OEM only with very specific hardware, so it might be sold with some net-books, but not for your PC.
ps
OSX for iphone, only 1 app. at time, LOL
@#3 Slurpy:
because ubuntu is still a pain – dont get me wrong i blame the hardware manf’s and their shitty drivers, as well as software peeps for refusing to port. for the last 2 years i’ve tried my best to love ubuntu, even using it exclusively for a while.
but it’s too much work, plain and simple. it runs faster than XP, but not any faster than tinyXP, which is my OS of choice at the moment.
I’d be willing to bet that even if ‘starter edition’ was being sold in stores in developed nations to consumers, that most people would be perfectly happy with it and not care about the differences between it and other versions of windows 7.
Whuh? From my perspective (as a film and animation student I’m surrounded by apple users, so I think I have a valid opinion when it comes to this) it’s just the other way around:
Apple is the big hype, or – being more correct – one big trend. Friends and students alike are told that Apple is the *only* real thing, and, ignorant and thus indifferent as they are, believe it.
The result is all the people around me flaunting their pitious macbooks and iMacs and iPods, evangelizing the superioritiy of their products without ever even having contemplated buying anything else. And by “contemplating” I mean “research about alternatives, strengths and weaknesses prior to purchase”. I really want to avoid breaking loose another mac vs. pc discussion here (we all have our fixed opinions anyway), but I’ll give a short example: when I confront friends about their choice, they state “because windows sucks and with apple everything just works” or some such. When asked how exactly OSX differs from Windows, all I get is bemused silence.
Those are the people who really don’t care. Head-nodders and yes-sayers, willfully ignorant. Willfull is the keyword here, I think.
@Rob
“I still think that windows is better than linux from the perspective of people who don’t have much time to spare.”
Amen to that. About a year ago I was redoing machine and I decided I was going to dual boot Vista/Hardy Heron on my desktop since I had enjoyed using my school’s linux boxes.
I had to spend a fair amount of time getting the system to recognize buttons 4 & 5 on my mouse, and was unable to get dual monitors working properly, even after a week or so of hacking xorg.conf (I could get mirrored monitors, or 2 monitors running at ridiculously odd resolutions [or on at least one occasion, no monitor working. Point being, you back up that file before screwing around with it]. My monitors are quite mismatched, but that has never been a problem for Windows [except during the actual install], or from OSX–both just work automatically). No amount of tinkering allowed me to get Myth TV working with my cable card, I could practically install Media Center with my eyes closed.
When I tried to turn on my computer the other day after being away for a couple of months, Vista had mysteriously buggered itself, while Ubuntu ran perfectly fine, but I could redo the Vista installation once a month, and still put less time into having the system the way I want than it would take to get Linux running the way I want it (maybe this is because I suck at Linux).
“Vista had mysteriously buggered itself,” is hereby appointed sentence of the day.
@#10… a fine point. i picked up my dell mini for $200, have thrown in anouther $100 in upgrades, and i came out with a fully functioning, $300 ultra-ultra portable PC. compare that to an $600 unlocked iphone and all of it’s limitations. the only benefit that i saw in a smart phone in general was the size, but i’ve got my bag with me just about everywhere i go and living in chicago, there’s no shortage of free available wifi wherever i am. to bitch about a cheap windows option that is partially targeted at the netbook crowd for running only 3 apps at a time is really dumb coming from an iphone supporter.
Odd. I use Vista Home Basic… which I’m assuming is similar to 7 Starter.
I chose it on purpose. It doesn’t look as fancy since it doesn’t have the transparent Aero. I can’t hover over the taskbar to see thumbnails. I don’t get Media Center.
I don’t want any of those. I don’t even care about them.
I use WMP for all my video ( yes, including 1080p MKV files ). I install xampp and get Apache and MySQL for my server work. Why would I want more bloat when less is sufficient?
Amen to the crippled OSX on an iphone as the ultimate rebuttal to that essay.
I have an iphone, and it’s so crippled that they actively fight to stop me from running a bash shell. That’s ridiculous.
With ubuntu, I figure the time spent dealing with occasional configuration headaches is made up for by not having to run installers and agree click “i agree” to one EULA after another.
Just when you thought that we would finally be rid of those damn “I’m a Mac, I’m PC” commercials, Microsoft throws Apple the very best material yet.
I’m a Mac user: a lover of Apple products and a hater of Mac zealots. But frankly, I do hope this move finally prompts people to switch to Linux. Its time for more businesses to think about offering competitively-priced subscription-based Linux support. Do that, and I think you’ll get more people to switch.
Leave it to someone to steer a discussion of Microsoft’s crippled operating system so far off course as to turn it into a “bash Apple” session.
@#16: People buy and LOVE Apple products for one simple reason: they have an intuitive interface that’s easy to use. If other hardware and software companies would simply get it through their thick skulls that people like devices that are powerful AND easy to operate, Apple wouldn’t have such a huge advantage over so many product areas.
@#21: Look, the iPhone is NOT a desktop operating system. If you want to run a BASH shell on a mobile device then clearly the iPhone is not the platform for you. Perhaps you should have done your research before you bought it.
After Vista lurched its way to the gutter on my HP laptop (not exactly the most robust machine itself) I wiped it and replaced it with Ubuntu. Works like a dream. Can’t fathom why I would ever pay to go back to MS. Maybe if they paid me…
@#23 GEEKMAN:
As I was trying to point out, in my environemnt (i.e. concerning most apple users I have contact with) the motivation for buying apple products was not “intuitive interface and easy of use”. Tell me how complicated an iriver or mp3 player is to operate compared to an ipod. Whats “unintuitive” about windows. What’s had to use. This is exactly my point, the neverending envangelist “apple is superior to the rest” message without adding any significant or relevant reason as to why that supposedly is so.
In the interest of all the other readers who’ve witnessed hundreds of discussions like this already, let’s just end it here
@#25: Convenient for you, having the last word. Let me just say that I am an IT person by trade, and work with all three operating systems regularly. I personally find that OS X is the most intuitive.
But what we ARE supposed to be talking about is an operating system for a DESKTOP computer that will only let you run three programs concurrently.
#26: “But what we ARE supposed to be talking about is an operating system for a DESKTOP computer that will only let you run three programs concurrently.”
No we’re not. Windows 7 Starter will not be running on Desktops outside of developing countries, it’s designed to run run on net books, which is great because the competition is the gimped out iphone-OS that can only run 1 application.
I have a MacBook and a Linux machine, though occasionally use Windows at work (for testing web applications on IE, typically). Every time I spend any length of time using Windows, I find myself hitting some annoying, thoughtless little design flaw. Usually it’s nothing huge, but just another example of the lack of care taken with Windows, of what the monopolists in Redmond consider “good enough” for their captive audience. (Captive due to various kinds of lock-in, or due to sheer inertia.)
“to bitch about a cheap windows option that is partially targeted at the netbook crowd for running only 3 apps at a time is really dumb coming from an iphone supporter.”
Nah, not really – two different kinds of devices, two different sets of requirements. I use my iPhone for different things than I do the Mini 9.
Really though, I’m in Safari, I’ve got mail and iTunes open, and then I want to open AIM and I hit my virtual head. Why? Because some dumbass suit decided that an arbitrary limit is a good way to induce upgrades.
Remember : Zero, One or All. Unless there’s a hidden architectural reason, follow that rule.
@Rob yay, I feel special
@GEEKMAN
Leave it to someone to steer a discussion of Microsoft’s crippled operating system so far off course as to turn it into a “bash Apple” session.
While Rob was talking about Windows, the original article (from Cult of Mac) talked about Apple about as much as Windows. Look at the very first sentence “I get asked a lot why I prefer Macs to PCs.” Are you actually surprised that in an article talking about OS strategy between Apple and Microsoft involved talking about both Apple and Microsoft.
Windows 7 starter edition is for netbooks (and ‘emerging markets’) and the author is complaining about how 7 is crippled. Apple, who has stated opposition to netbooks* has stated that the IPod Touch/iPhone are Apple’s products that cover that market*. The iPhone is a more than valid device to bring up. When it was announced, Apple talked about how unlike Windows vs Windows Mobile, the iPhone would run OSX** (yeah, they talk about it as the iPhone OS nowadays, but they said it would be capable of desktop-class applications. At the original keynote, they made it sound like it was running full-blown OS X). Apple’s offering being completely unable to run certain software is relevant in a discussion about Microsoft limiting people to 3 concurrent applications. I don’t really buy Apple’s argument that the iPhone is comparable, but that doesn’t matter, Apple themselves bring up the comparison.
*http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/22/apple-reports-best-ever-march-quarter-with-a-1-21b-profit-call/
**http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/09/iphone-announced/
Geekman,
My research was that the the hacked iphone had more life in it’s open source community than the phones that didn’t require a jailbreak.. so it’s working out ok, it’s just that apple’s restrictions are lame in the same way that microsoft’s are lame. They both have unnecessarily crippled operating systems for low end computing devices.
…and of course, I disagree about it being a desktop OS – plenty of my computing life has been spent on operating systems less capable than the OS that’s running on my phone. It has a gui shell on the front that’s not a desktop gui shell, but that’s not the operating system.
@BIBULB
“Really though, I’m in Safari, I’ve got mail and iTunes open, and then I want to open AIM and I hit my virtual head. Why? Because some dumbass suit decided that an arbitrary limit is a good way to induce upgrades.
Remember : Zero, One or All. Unless there’s a hidden architectural reason, follow that rule.”
Bingo. They picked a stupid arbitrary number. Autocad + Photoshop takes up way more resources than notepad + calculator + minesweeper. If you really wanted a system to ensure proper performance you would monitor how much resources a program would take to run, and then when the sum of the programs reached a threshold value (which should be based on the machine, not hardcoded) it should stop you then (or ideally warn you that running the additional program might cause decreased performance and possible freezing. Hell, I wouldn’t mind having such a warning in real versions of the OS).
/me pays for a firmware update for his iTouch.
hmm…
No they(APPLE) steal hundreds of dollars blantly from suckers who don’t notice!
Most people with their low powered small notebooks (we can’t call them netbooks any more) just want to email, browse and MSN and I am sure the cut down version of windows will be able to do all three. So what is the problem ?.
This is consistent with the fact that you have to buy Kaspersky anti-malware software from the get-go to even use Windows.
Then again, who besides businesses actually buys Windows anyway?!
I’ve never met an individual / home user who isn’t running Windows Professional Corporate. (Along with Microsoft Office Blue Edition.) Because people would rather “pirate” than deal with Windows Product Activation bullshit (i.e. DRM).
That’s one advantage to Mac OS X Client right there: no activation / serial number.
(Also, OSX has Print->Save-as-PDF, I practically never have to install drivers for anything with OSX, and it’s a UNIX that includes expected command-line tools such as ssh, with optional MacPorts tools available. But I agree that “QuickTime Pro” is dumb, and I expect that’ll be eliminated with QuickTime X in 10.6.)
Article on arid.net (http://digg.com/d1pTAK) that talked about windows 7 starter edition and had suggestions on a better way to implement the starter edition for netbooks.
To all the people saying that people in developing nations will use the Starter crap. We wont. We’ll just pirate the better versions
Hey, yeah i totally agree with the starter windows 7 thing .. but why dont we all just stick to the 7 RC and then when it runs out get the 2012 RC? lol ..
I’ve done my review on my site on my impressions of windows 7, feel free to have a read of it and love the work you guys at boing boing are doing!
http://www.theurbanshogun.com/2009/05/office-2010-first-look-review.html
xp starter edition + virtual box is the best alternative to wine solution. at least for companies in 3rd world (where im located) looking for cheap “legalization” and avoid fines.
is possible to run most of windows equivalent applications native for linux, and for the few ones like autocad, the virtualized machine does the job.
this is something linux experts knows very well, but their “linuxreligious” ten commanders doesnt include any MS solution as an option. ridiculous.
this is another reason MS is now limiting the StEd EULA to “new notebooks”, not including for new desktop’s.